DOES LIFE BEGIN AT CONCEPTION OR FIRST BREATH OUTSIDE OF THE WOMB

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I) [www.dailykos.com]:

Bible: Life Begins at Breath, Not Conception
OR DOES IT?
It's laid out right there in Genesis:
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.]

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

I) [Gen 2:7]:

(Gen 2:7 YLT) "And Jehovah God [forms, Heb. "yatsar"] the man - [from] dust from the ground, and [breathes] into his nostrils breath of [lives, plural - Hebrew "hayyîm," masculine, plural: two lives in one living being existing together: man's soul and his human spirit], and the man [becomes] a living creature." =

II) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

Bible: Life Begins at Breath, Not Conception
OR DOES IT?

It's laid out right there in Genesis:
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 2:7

So breath is life, and when life is breathed into the earthen vessel that is a human body, it comes alive. 

There's a lot of earthen vessel allusions in the bible, calling god the potter, that forms clay vessels (our bodies) into which god places our souls. This was always meant to be a metaphor. Indeed, this is rather problematic if you take it literally, because it means that god is a shoddy potter. How many people are born with defects or serious medical conditions? And what about the transgender person? If you take this stuff literally, it means that god intentionally formed a female body, and put a male soul into that body, or vice versa. This is yet another reason why God itself says in the bible (see below) that you shouldn't take scripture literally. ]

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

Genesis chapter two moves the focus upon the latter part of the sixth day of creation when Jehovah ElOhîm, the LORD God, formed the man, Adam from the dust of the ground and upon God's breathing into his nostrils the breath of lives, (plural), whereupon the man Adam became a unique living creature with both a physical and spiritual life.

Note that the woman was not created in precisely the same manner nor has the rest of humanity been made alive in this manner:

[Gen 2:21-22 NASB]:

(Gen 2:21 NASB) "So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place.

(Gen  2:22 NASB) The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man." 

Note that a part of the man's side was taken and God "fashioned" it into a woman which was evidently made alive in some unspecified manner, not necessarily via the breaths of lives as Adam was created. There is nothing stipulated here about breathing the breath of lives into the nostrils of the woman God had formed from what He took from Adam. So it is presumptuous to insist that that is what happened.

So contrary to what some contend, actual, literal human type breath is not indicated as always literally all or part of the process by which God exercises His power in order to create life and that alone - human life or otherwise - it is figurative language conveying God's absolutely sovereign power over His Creation! But whenever God and breath [or a beating heart, or an active mind, etc.] together are associated with life it is a figurative expression for God's creative capacity to supernaturally bring something in His creation into a particular lifeform, be it human life or otherwise from something or nothing.

Thus the idea of breathing out the breath of lives both spiritual unto a human spirit and soul to animate the physical body  - is a figurative not a literal expression for the manner in which God brought /created life into the material of Adam which He had formed out of inorganic material laying lifeless there in the Garden of Eden; albeit Eve's lifebringing was not so stipulated, nor those humans who were born of woman via conception born the same way. Nevertheless this is so that men might have some sense of God's Work of creation which is beyond finite man's comprehension. Note that since God is in spirit form, albeit infinite, He does not breathe in the human anatomical sense, hence the words are figurative, the result by which the inorganic material God called Adam was brought to life. Furthermore, before God brought life to Adam, God had already created innumerable kinds and quantities of plant and animal lifeforms evidently without breathing lives into each one of them precisely in the manner He did with Adam according to the biblical account in Genesis chapters one and two. For lifeforms other than man do not have a spiritual life / breath indicated in the origin of their existence. Since God created the heavens and the earth out of nothing, certainly He could have created a man out of nothing as well into a breathing, living lifeform by supernaturally providing the breath of lives or whatever His will decided to do. So then the words "breath" and "breathed" are figurative language to portray that which came from God which portrayal of activity created a lifeform God called Adam which He created from an inorganic pile of matter which God had formed from existing material which He created out of nothing. He evidently did this in a specific manner not stipulated in detail, evidently because of the limitations of finite man's capacity to fully understand how He did it, albeit supernatural as only God has that capacity.

Note that the manner in which God created the first man Adam cannot be compared to the manner in which humans are given birth to from the womb of a woman via conception from an egg and a sperm or sperms: the sperm and the egg are neither lifeless inorganic forms as was the inorganic matter of Adam before he became alive; nor are they fully formed independent life forms, nor do they consist solely of inorganic material. But they are animated, ready and able to join with one another to create life which is quite different from the material and format of the completely inorganic matter formed outside of the womb, which comprised the first albeit lifeless man Adam into which Scripture stipulates that God breathed the breaths of life - into the nostrils - both physical and spiritual lives - into the nostrils of this full grown human shape; whereupon the material came to life. Hence to conclude that the matter in the womb of the woman formed by the joining of the woman's egg with the man's sperm(s) is not yet a living being in the womb until it comes out of the womb and in some unstipulated manner receives the literal breaths of life from God whereupon it breathes its first breath is an unwarranted conclusion.  

This conclusion is not based on facts or evidence from Scripture.  Note further that the many examples of imperfections in the human body cannot be claimed to discredit God, but instead be God's intended result because of the disobedience of Adam and Eve as representatives of humanity in the Garden of Eden when they sinned, thus causing a defective human race to descend from them to be redeemed by God and then brought back to perfection to dwell in the new heavens and the new earth.

In any case God does not breathe, He is not limited by a physical body nor finite physical attributes such as breathing. He has and can create life out of nothing. Hence at the very least the language is figurative for God's unfathomable attributes which includes His capacity to create life even out of nothing as He wills.]

[Compare Ps 33:6]:

[Compare Ps 33:6]:

Thus the idea of breathing out the breath of lives both spiritual unto a human spirit and soul to animate the physical body  - is a figurative not a literal expression for the manner in which God brought /created life into the material of Adam which He had formed out of inorganic material laying lifeless there in the Garden of Eden; albeit Eve's lifebringing was not so stipulated, nor those humans who were born of woman via conception born the same way. Nevertheless this is so that men might have some sense of God's Work of creation which is beyond finite man's comprehension. Note that since God is in spirit form, albeit infinite, He does not breathe in the human anatomical sense, hence the words are figurative the result of which the inorganic material God called Adam was brought to life. Furthermore, before God brought life to Adam, God had already created innumerable kinds and quantities of plant and animal lifeforms evidently without breathing lives into each one of them precisely in the manner He did with Adam according to the biblical account in Genesis chapters one and two. Since God created the heavens and the earth out of nothing, certainly He could have created a man out of nothing as well into a breathing, living lifeform by supernaturally providing the breath of lives. So then the words "breath" and "breathed" are figurative language to portray that which came from God which portrayal of activity created a lifeform God called Adam which He created from an inorganic pile of matter which God had formed from existing material He created out of nothing. He evidently did this in a specific manner not stipulated in detail, evidently because of the limitations of finite man's capacity to fully understand how He did it, albeit supernatural as only God has that capacity.

Note that manner in which God created the first man Adam cannot be compared to the manner in which humans are given birth to from the womb of a woman via conception from an egg and a sperm or sperms: the sperm and the egg are neither lifeless inorganic forms as was the inorganic matter of Adam before he became alive; nor are they fully formed independent life forms, nor do they consist solely of inorganic material. But they are nevertheless animated, ready and able to join with one another to create life which is quite different from the material and format of the completely inorganic matter formed outside of the womb, which comprised the first albeit lifeless man Adam into which God breathed the breaths of life - into the nostrils - both physical and spiritual lives - into the nostrils of this full grown human shape; whereupon the material came to life. Hence to conclude that the matter in the womb of the woman formed by the joining of the woman's egg with the man's sperm(s) is not yet a living being in the womb until it comes out of the womb and in some unstipulated manner receives the literal breaths of life from God whereupon it breathes its first breath is an unwarranted conclusion.  

This is not based on facts or evidence from Scripture.  Note further that the many examples of imperfections in the human body cannot be claimed to discredit God, but instead be God's intended result because of the disobedience of Adam and Eve as representatives of humanity in the Garden of Eden when they sinned, thus causing a defective human race to descend from them to be redeemed by God and then brought back to perfection to dwell in the new heavens and the new earth.

In any case God does not breathe, He is not limited by a physical body nor finite physical attributes such as breathing. He has and can create life out of nothing. Hence at the very least the language is figurative for God's unfathomable attributes which includes His capacity to create life even out of nothing as He wills]

IV) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

[Ezekiel 37 9-10, 13-14
Once again, the breath of God is life itself, and in this vision from Ezekiel, life is placed back into bodies which were dead, and they come back to life. It's all some kind of vision though, the bible doesn't actually claim that Ezekiel brought an army back from the dead. But it does lay out that life is breath]

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[Ezek 37:9-14]:

(Ezek 37:9 NASB) '''Then He said to me, "Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, 'Thus says the Lord GOD,' "Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they come to life.

(Ezek 37:10 NASB) So I prophesied as He commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they came to life and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army.' "  '''

(Ezek 37:11 NASB) Then He said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.'

(Ezek 37:12 NASB)  "Therefore prophesy and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel.

(Ezek 37:13 NASB) "Then you will know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people.

(Ezek 37:14 NASB)  "I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the LORD, have spoken and done it," declares the LORD.' " 

V) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

[An Objector To "Breath" Being Figurative States Re: Ezekiel 37:9-10, 13-14]:

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

Ezek 37:1-14 Is A Figurative Not A Literal Vision Of The Restoration Of Israel - A Picture Of The Fulfillment Of The New Covenant Between God And Israel . It Does Not Have A Literal View Of How Human Physical Life Is Or Was Ever Created:

(Ezek 37:4 NASB) Again He said to me, ''''Prophesy over these bones and say to them, '''O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.'''

(Ezek 37:5 NASB) Thus says the Lord God to these bones, '''Behold, I will cause breath to enter you that you may come to life.

(Ezek 37:6 NASB) I will put sinews on you, make flesh grow back on you, cover you with skin and put breath in you that you may come alive; and you will know that I am the LORD.''' ''''

¤  [(vv. 4-6) Whereupon Ezekiel was commanded to prophesy over the bones to "hear the word of the LORD." And the LORD spoke, "Behold, I will cause breath to enter you that you may come to life. I will put sinews on you, make flesh grow back on you, cover you with skin and put breath in you that you may come alive; and you will know that I am the LORD." The commands of the LORD God were given to Ezekiel to prophesy this message: to predict that in the future - speaking to the bones in the vision which evidently are symbollic of a future generation of Israel - a generation of a people which has long been dead to God as His chosen people "will come to life" in the sense of a particular generation being His people once again and forever, (cf. Hos 2:14-23 ; cf. Ro 9:25). The prophet Ezekiel was to state that it will be the LORD God alone Who will put sinews, i.e., muscles and flesh on that set of bones - that generation of Israel in the future - and put breath in them that they may come to life in the sense of a physical and spiritual life connected forever with the LORD so that they will know that He is the LORD, implying that their faith in Him to fulfill His promises in the New Covenant has been expressed by all of them, (cf. Ezek 36:24-27 )

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(Ezek 37:7 NASB) So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold, a rattling; and the bones came together, bone to its bone.

(Ezek 37:8 NASB) And I looked, and behold, sinews were on them, and flesh grew and skin covered them; but there was no breath in them.

¤  [(vv. 7-8) As Ezekiel prophesied, there was a noise, a rattling, and the bones came together, with sinews, implying that the bones were not previously connected. Flesh and skin covered them; but there was no breath in them - they were still physically and spiritually dead]

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(Ezek 37:9 NASB) Then He said to me, ''''Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, '''Thus says the Lord God, "Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they come to life." ''' ''''

(Ezek 37:10 NASB) So I prophesied as He commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they came to life and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army.

¤  [(vv. 9-10) Ezekiel was then given the words to prophesy to the breath. And the breath came into the bones. The bones came to life and stood on their feet - an exceedingly great army. The vision of the recovery of the bones to form live human bodies into an exceedingly great army pictured a generation of Israel's ultimate national restoration. The breath that came into them that brought them to life was evidently a physical life and a spiritual birth as well, (ref. Ezek 36:24-28 )]

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(Ezek 37:11 NASB) Then He said to me, ''''Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, ''''Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.''' ''''

¤  [(v. 11) Verses 11-13 provide the LORD's interpretation of His vision which He gave to Ezekiel, (ref. vv. 1-10). In verse 1 the LORD pronounced to Ezekiel, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.' " So the LORD said that the vision was about the nation Israel, i.e., "the whole house of Israel," in the sense of the whole of the Hebrew people - Israel and Judah together - most of whom at that time were dispersed or in captivity. And they were completely cut off from God - from His blessings.

This is as opposed to members of the Church who some contend have replaced Israel as God's people which the Church is actually not in view in this passage at all.

And the LORD told Ezekiel that "the whole house of Israel" despairingly complained, "Our bones are dried up and our hope [for deliverance] has perished. We are completely cut off." In actuality they were like what they appeared to be in the vision: unburied skeletons / bones so dry that they appeared to have been dead for a very long time - implying that the nation Israel had been dead to God for a very long time - spiritually dead and no longer His people. So the bones were without capacity / hope for deliverance. Hope that was destroyed by the outcome of Babylon's attack resulting in Judah's dispersion and captivity]

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(Ezek 37:12 NASB) ''''Therefore prophesy and say to them, '''Thus says the Lord God, "Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel.''' ''''

¤  [(v. 12) So the LORD commanded Ezekiel to prophesy and say to the resurrected bones, "Thus says the LORD God, 'Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel.' " So in His vision to Ezekiel, graves appeared to be opened and God's people were brought to life and came up out of them, in the sense of becoming spiritually reconnected / reborn with their God. The LORD stipulated that He will bring them up out of their graves of captivity - places of exile such as in Babylon and througout the nations "into the land of Israel." Both the imagery of dry bones becoming live people and the figure of resurrection from a grave illustrate this same truth. Israel, who had been nonexistent as a people on their own land and scattered throughout the nations, would be brought back to life physically as a nation in their own land. This is not a resurrection of all

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(Ezek 37:13 NASB) ''''Then you will know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people.''''

¤  [(v. 13) Whereupon in verse 13 it says, "Then you will know that I am the LORD when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people." Priority number one is God's Holy Name, (cf. Ezek 36:20-23). God will vindicate His Holy Name. He will indeed open up their graves and cause them to rise up in life and come out of them, i.e., He will cause His people to come to life in a spiritual sense and reunite His people, move them up and out of their captivity and restore their Land to them forever, forgive and deliver them from sin and enable them to live Godly lives forever - without sin. His people will surely know that He is the LORD]

6) (Ezek 37:14) The LORD Will Put His Spirit Within His People - That Generation Of Israel Whom He Has Chosen To Be His People - And They Will Come To Life, And He Will Place Them In Their Own Land. Then They Will Know That He, The LORD, Has Spoken And Done It

(Ezek 37:14 NASB) I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the LORD, have spoken and done it,''' declares the LORD.''''

¤  [(v. 14) And the means by which a generation of the people of Israel will be spiritually and physically restored to the Promised Land will be done by the LORD: He will put His Spirit in them and cause them to come to life in a spiritual sense - in faithful fellowship with the LORD, and He will place them on their own land, in keeping with the New Covenant and the message just delivered in Ezekiel chapter 36. Then they will know that He, the LORD, has spoken and done it]

****** EXCERPT FROM EZEKIEL 36 ******

(Ezek 36:22-24 cont.) The People Of Israel Will Be Returned To The Promised Land For The Sake Of God's Holy Name.

Note That Israel Is Not To Be Confused Here With Members Of The Church Whom The Latter Have Not Been Promised By God To Receive Land He Promised To Give To Their Forefathers, (cont.)

(Ezek 36:22 NASB) '''Therefore say to the house of Israel, '''Thus says the Lord God, "It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went.

(Ezek 36:23 NASB) I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD," declares the Lord God, "when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight.

(Ezek 36:24 NASB) For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land." '''

¤ [(vv. 23-24) Therefore, in order that the holiness of His great name might be vindicated before the nations of the world who thought that the LORD - the God of Israel - could not protect His people and keep them safe within their land, the LORD would restore the people of Israel to their land, but not because of anything that they might do.

In ancient times one's name and person were equivalent; a name represented the person. Through Israel's rebellion against God, the people had defamed God's Person. Therefore, not only would His covenant faithfulness be displayed when He restored Israel to her land, but He would vindicate Himself in the sense of bringing back His Honor and sanctifying His Holy Name and Person throughout the world. And this will be through His supernatural regathering of that generation of Israel at that time. They evidently will all trust in His salvation / deliverance / restoration at the moment when He comes upon the earth in His Second Coming, having already made provision for the forgiveness of the sins of all mankind as the Seed of Abraham  - the Kinsman Redeemer. It will not be through anything that Israel will do . God's Righteousness will not be impugned because it was the Seed of Abraham Who has paid for the unrighteousness of Israel and all of mankind so that Israel and all mankind might have the opportunity to share in the blessings of the New Covenant in the Eternal Kingdom of God - each according to the plan of God as stipulated in the New Covenant, (vv. 25-27; cf. Jer 31:31-34; Ezek 11:14-20; chs 36-37; Isa 49:1-13; Romans ch 11 and many more). Then the nations will know that the God of Israel is Glorified, Just, Righteous, Holy, Almighty, Loving, etc. - the only true God

[Compare Bible Knowledge Commentary On Ezek 37:1-10 Which Has The Correct Context]:

"37:1-10. God transported Ezekiel by the Sprit (cf. 3:14; 8:3; 11:1, 24; 43:5) to a valley... full of bones. There he noticed that the bones... were very dry, bleached and baked under the hot sun.
God asked the prophet a remarkable question: Son of man, can these bones live? Was there potential for life in these lifeless frames? Ezekiel knew that humanly speaking it was impossible, so his answer was somewhat guarded. O Sovereign Lord, You alone know. Only God can accomplish such a feat.

God then directed Ezekiel to prophesy to these bones. The content of his message was God's promised restoration: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life. ["Breath" (rûaḥ) could also be translated "wind" or "spirit." In any case God does not breathe, He is not limited by a physical body nor finite physical attributes such as breathing. He can create life out of nothing. Hence at the very least the language is figurative for God's unfathomable attributes which includes His capacity to create life even out of nothing as He wills. For this was a vision that God gave to Ezekiel about the bringing back of God's chosen people into repentance unto faith and fellowship with Him: a vision of figurative language, not to be taken necessarily as literal. For the Bible prophesies that at the Second Coming of Christ a generation of all Israelites who will be physically alive at the time as physical descendants of Israel by virtue of "natural" physical conception and birth - who did not need to be physically resurrected from a burial site of literal dry bones, all to a man will believe in their Messiah / Savior and be born of God fulfilling God's promise of the New Covenant with them and them alone to corule with Him over the Millennial Kingdom as priests to all the Gentile nations ]

[BKC, cont.]:

"In 37:14 the same word is translated "Spirit." Possibly God had in mind Genesis 2:7. In creating man, He transformed Adam into a living being by breathing into his nostrils "the breath of lives." Whether God was referring to wind, physical breath, the principle of life, or the Holy Spirit is uncertain. [Note that the Hebrew word rendered "Breath" (rûaḥ) could also be translated "wind" or "spirit."] However, the results were obvious. God gave life to these dead bones. As Ezekiel was giving this prophecy, he saw a remarkable thing. The bones came together (Ezek. 37:7), flesh developed, skin covered them (v. 8), breath entered them, and they stood up (v. 10)."

[Note that this is a vision, not an actual literal account of observation of the resurrection of the people of Israel. Certainly God Who created the universe and all that is in it out of nothing does not need to take all of these belaboring steps to accomplishHis purposes]

[Compare Expositor's Bible Commentary On Ezek 37:3-14]:

"3-10 This apocalyptic vision has two distinct sections in the vision itself. First, Ezekiel recounted what he saw and did in vv.3-10. Then the vision closes with the interpretation in vv.11-14. As one reads an apocalyptic vision, he feels as if he is there, for the details are given in the first person by the recipient. The Lord asked Ezekiel whether these bones would live (v.3a). Ezekiel, acknowledging his lack of omniscience, replied that only the Lord knew (v.3b). A prophecy was then given to Ezekiel for the dry bones. The Lord would cause them to live. Tendons, flesh, skin, and breath would come on the bones so that live people would be formed. Then this "resurrected" people would know that God was the Lord (vv.4-6). So Ezekiel did exactly as the Lord commanded and proclaimed the Lord's words to the dead, dry bones. While he was speaking, all the bones came together and took on themselves tendons, flesh, and skin. But no breath was found in them (vv.7-8).

[This does not mean that there was something magical about the breath of God???? God does not breathe anyway, He is spirit, not restricted by a physical body that needs to breathe. This is figurative language. For all the other body parts and functions have to be working as well, otherwise these Israelites would not be alive yet either!!]

Ezekiel was instructed to prophesy again, this time the breath was to come from the four winds [not from God. This is figurative / vision language. Notice that in other passages the breaths of life come from God!! Now it's coming from the four winds??? Obviously figurative and a vision is being portrayed]

— probably indicating the full power of the entering breath (i.e., from every direction) to renew the bodies—and to breathe on these slain ones so that they might live (v.9). On doing so, Ezekiel saw this army of people come alive! Such was the vision itself. [Perhaps not to be taken literally in the light of the passages on the New Covenant that picture the fulfillment and establishment of Israel as God's Chosen people are literal ]

The recovery of the bones to form bodies pictured Israel's ultimate national restoration (vv.4-8). Breath (wind or Spirit) entering these restored bodies portrayed spiritual renewal (vv.9-10). This imitated the sequence in chapter 36 ...

11-14 In interpreting apocalyptic visions, certain basic principles should be followed. The divine interpretation given within the vision should be followed carefully, neither adding to it nor elaborating on aspects of it. Apocalyptic visions were never meant to have every detail interpreted, only the major thrust of the vision was to be grasped.

As one examines the vision and its divine interpretation, several factors are noteworthy. The bones are identified as the whole house of Israel, the slain ones of v.9 (v.11; cf. 36:10). The bones (or entire house of Israel in that day) would declare three things about themselves (v.11; cf. Ps 6:2). First, they were dry, an obvious condition of bones from people who have been dead for a very long time. Though quantitative time may be implied by the dryness of the bones, the emphasis of the interpretation was on qualitative spiritual deadness—"our hope is gone" and "we are cut off" (v.11). Second, the bones (Israel) declared that their hope had perished. The people of Israel, having been deceased as a nation for so long, had lost all hope of becoming a nation again or of seeing God's covenants fulfilled. Third, the bones (Israel) said that they were separated from one another, i.e., the people would be separated and dispersed from one another immediately before their restoration. That was their current condition.

The vision itself is rather self-evident and needs no interpretation once the bones are identified. The vision clearly demonstrated the restoration to life of a people who had been dead for some time. It was in two stages: first physical (or national) restoration and then spiritual renewal (keeping in mind that the word for breath, wind, and spirit is the same in Hebrew). The creation of man followed a similar pattern: the body formed first, then the breath received (cf. Gen 2:7). This national and spiritual restoration is elaborated in the interpretation section through another figure, that of a resurrection from graves. Both the imagery of dry bones becoming live people and the figure of resurrection from a grave illustrate the same truth. Israel, who had been nonexistent as a people on their own land and scattered throughout the nations, would be brought back to life physically as a nation in their own land. Just as these events in the vision would be miraculous, so will be Israel's restoration. Once in the land they would be renewed spiritually when God placed his Spirit (identity of the breath or spirit in the vision) within them in keeping with the new covenant and the message just delivered in chapter 36 (v.14; cf. vv.9-10; 36:22-32; 37:15-28). The entire context of these six messages was future. The context of chapters 36-37, before and following this apocalyptic vision, indicates that Israel's national restoration in the end time was in view. It was not to be just a physical restoration nor only a spiritual restoration. A national regathering of Israel from among the nations in the end time (as seen from the context), a spiritual conversion of Israel, and a reestablishment of the nation in the land of promise are in view both in 36:16-38 and in this apocalyptic vision (vv.13-14). This is not a resurrection of all the descendants of Israel.

This could genuinely be termed a "rebirth" of the nation. Just as the necessary elements of a nation were essential to the initial formation of Israel in Genesis through Joshua—a people, a government, and a land—so God would provide all three essentials once again in this rebirth of Israel in the future. The people of that day are brought together through restoration in 36:16-37:28. The land is provided in the prophecy of 35:1-36:15. The government of renewed Israel would be given in Ezekiel's apocalyptic vision revealed in chapters 40-48. When Israel would be restored and become a nation once again, then the people would definitely know that the Lord did it and that he and none other was their God (vv.13-14)." [Cf Fulfillment of the New Covenant ]

VI) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

[An Objector To "Breath" Being Figurative In Passages Concerning Origin Of Human Life States Re: Job 34:14-15]:

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[Let's take an advanced look at Job 34:12-15 before wwwdailykos.com butchers it]

[Job 34:12-15]:

(Job 34:12 NASB) "Surely, God will not act wickedly, And the Almighty will not pervert justice.

(Job 34:13 NASB) Who gave Him authority over the earth? And who has laid on Him the whole world?

(Job 34:14 NASB) If He should determine to do so, If He should gather to Himself His spirit and His breath,

(Job 34:15 NASB) All flesh would perish together, And man would return to dust."

VII) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

[An Objector To "Breath" Being Figurative In Passages Concerning Origin Of Human Life States Re: Job 34:14-15]:

Once again, breath is life, and without breath, human bodies would "return to dust."

But these verses in Job 34:14-15 say, "If He [God] should determine to do so, If He should gather to Himself His spirit and His breath, All flesh would perish together, And man would return to dust." 

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[But this objector's contention cannot allow for words to these verses to be twisted to imply that life literally comes about to all when God gives one a human spirit and physical breath so that the physical body might function, i.e., His breath of lives - as if that it is what it always requires. But this limits God - having to rely upon something beyond His capacity; or that He cannot simply create life from nothing, or any way He wills. Notice that other passages only stipulate the breaths of lives which bring life to inert matter, leaving out the addition of God's Spirit as what is essential to create / restore life, still other passages have the breath of lives coming from the four winds, not God. The objector completely ignores this additional consideration from his points in Genesis chapter 2 and the "breath of lives" referred to therein. So we cannot take these words as literal. They are figurative!!! The verses simply say figuratively that God has the sovereign power over all of His creation in every single aspect of life such that He may choose to "gather to Himself His Spirit and His breath," in the sense of taking away the power He has provided to each living thing to be and remain alive to even to have been created. The specifics as to how God's Sovereign power creates and holds His Creation together are not stipulated here or anywhere. 

[Compare Col 1:15-17]:

(Col 1:15 NASB) "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

(Col 1:16 NASB) For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.

(Col 1:17 NASB) He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together."

Furthermore they are beyond the capacity of finite man to comprehend anyway. Hence the figurative speech!

So contrary to what some contend, actual, literal human type breath is not indicated as always literally all or part of the process by which God exercises His power in order to create life and that alone - human life or otherwise. It is figurative language conveying God's absolutely sovereign power over His Creation! So whenever God and breath [or a beating heart, or an active mind, etc.] together are associated with life it is a figurative expression for God's creative capacity to supernaturally bring something in His creation into a particular lifeform, be it human life or otherwise from something or nothing. Note that on the matter of evidence that one is alive; breath, beating heart / pulse, active mind is often submitted as evidence that certain creatures are alive - albeit all things come from God any which way He chooses. So other functions of the alive body such as a pulse /  beating heart, active mind, brain waves also prove out to mankind that one is alive to men - which God sovereignly controls as well. So one may say that a man is alive because he possesses a beating / pulsating heart, brain activity or breath as God has provided that in order to make him / keep him alive]. [Note that the Hebrew word rendered "Breath" (rûaḥ) could also be translated "wind" or "spirit."] 

Thus the idea of God breathing out the breath of lives both spiritual unto a human spirit and soul to animate the physical body - is a figurative not a literal expression for the manner in which God brought /created life into the material of Adam which He had formed out of inorganic material laying lifeless there in the Garden of Eden; albeit Eve's lifebringing was not so stipulated, nor those humans who were born of woman via conception born the same way. Nevertheless this is so that men might have some sense of God's Work of creation which is beyond finite man's comprehension. Note that since God is in spirit form, albeit infinite, He does not breathe in the human anatomical sense, hence the words are figurative the result of which caused the inorganic material God called Adam to be brought to life. Furthermore, before God brought life to Adam, God had already created innumerable kinds and quantities of plant and animal lifeforms evidently without breathing lives into each one of them precisely in the manner He did with Adam according to the biblical account in Genesis chapters one and two. Since God created the heavens and the earth out of nothing, certainly He could have created a man out of nothing as well as creating a breathing, living lifeform by supernaturally providing the breath of lives. So then the words "breath" and "breathed" are figurative language to portray that which came from God which portrayal of activity created a lifeform God called Adam which He created from an inorganic pile of matter which God had formed from existing material He created out of nothing. He evidently did this in a specific manner not stipulated in detail, evidently because of the limitations of finite man's capacity to fully understand how He did it, albeit supernatural as only God has that capacity to be.]

VIII) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

"And then, as an aside because "Everybody Knows" that breath is life, Ezekiel introduces the words of God by saying:

"Thus says God, the Lord, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it"

Breath IS life. That first breath is when the soul enters the body, when an earthen vessel becomes alive.

So we know, pretty clearly, that life is breath. From dust ye came, to dust ye shall return, as it is breath and the presence of spirit of God within breath that makes us live.

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

First of all NOT EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT BREATH IS LIFE in the sense of God must breathe the breath of lives into every inanimate pile of inanimate material in order to create every single human being, i.e., God is literally exhaling breaths into inanimate material to bring every man, woman and child to life out of inanimate material - even the fertilized egg which has evolved into a very small humanlike inanimate object inside the womb of a woman. 

Futhermore it is Isaiah who says "Thus says God, the Lord, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it," not Ezekiel. 

Note that the writer of Isaiah does not stipulate "breath is life" anywhere. Instead the words quoted convey the idea of how God created man, and that He is absolutely sovereign over each individual man's life in every way - from the physical to the spiritual. So neither the phrase nor the concept that "Breath IS life," in the sense of breath being the sole evidence / medium by which there is life appears in Isaiah nor anywhere else in the Bible. Notice that Isaiah also includes the concept that living human beings have a human spirit within them:

[Compare Isa 42:5]:

(Isa 42:5 NASB) "Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and its offspring, Who gives breath to the people on it And spirit to those who walk in it,"

[Expositor's Bible Commentary On Isa 42:5-7]:

"5-7 Duhm limited the first servant song to vv.1-4, but comparison with 49:1-6 (and also with 61:1-3) certainly suggests we should not divide vv. 5-7 from the first four verses. Just as Psalm 2 presents the divine address to the messianic King or to Israel's king as foreshadowing him, almost certainly in the context of his kingly inauguration or enthronement, so here, with the ministry of the servant in prospect, God assures him of divine support in the execution of his mission. As Genesis sets redemption in a context of creation, so the picture of God as Creator and Lord of all the universe and of human life given in chapter 40 is summarily expressed here. His relationship to the universe (v.5) is suggestive of almighty power. This power is now channeled for the support of his servant in the doing of his will. If we interpret this passage in terms of its ultimate fulfillment in Jesus, then it was through his earthly ministry with its climax in death that he was "made" a covenant and a light, just as through his sufferings he was perfected in experience for his priestly work (Heb 5:4-10)."

[Bible Knowledge Commentary On Isa 42:5]:

"5-7. The Lord promised to assist the Servant in His mission, which God can do because He is the Creator (cf. 40:12-14, 26). He created the immense heavens and the earth (cf. 44:24; 45:12, 18; 48:13; 51:13, 16) and life in it, including man, giving him breath. 

[Notice that this is not saying that God creates man by breathing the breath of lives into him; albeit that may be stipulated or aluded to in other passages. For something elsewhere may be true, but in the passage at hand it is not in view - therefore not admissable as evidence of what a passage is saying]

Speaking to His Servant (42:6-7) God assured Him that He had been called to perform the will of God. To be called... in righteousness (as Cyrus also would be, 41:2), meant to be responsible to do God's righteous will. Of course the Messiah, unlike Cyrus, lived a righteous life (for He is God). Because the Lord would take hold of the Servant's hand the Messiah would have the power to carry out God's will.

IX) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

And something that most people don't know is that the bible contains an abortion ritual.
Yes, you read that right. The bible contains an ancient ritual designed to cause abortion. It's in Numbers 5:11-31, and it involves forcing a woman accused of adultery to drink "bitter water" designed to cause a miscarriage. Her belly will swell, and her "thigh" will rot. Thigh of course being a priestly euphemism for ones reproductive organs. It's known as the ordeal of the bitter water or the trial of jealousy, so named because it is initiated not by the woman, but by her jealous husband]

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[Let's see what the passage actually says]:

[Numbers 5:11-31 (NASB)]:

(Nu 5:11 NASB) "Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 

(Nu 5:12 NASB) "Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, 'If any man's wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him, 

(Nu 5:13 NASB) and a man has intercourse with her and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband and she is undetected, although she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act, 

(Nu 5:14 NASB) if a spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife when she has
defiled herself, or if a spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife when she has not defiled herself, 

(Nu 5:15 NASB) the man shall then bring his wife to the priest, and shall bring as an offering for her one-tenth of an ephah of barley meal; he shall not pour oil on it nor put frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of memorial, a reminder of iniquity.

(Nu 5:16 NASB) 'Then the priest shall bring her near and have her stand before the LORD, 

(Nu 5:17 NASB) and the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel; and he shall take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 

(Nu 5:18 NASB) 'The priest shall then have the woman stand before the LORD and let the hair of the woman's head go loose, and place the grain offering of memorial in her hands, which is the grain offering of jealousy, and in the hand of the priest is to be the water of bitterness that brings a curse. 

(Nu 5:19 NASB) 'The priest shall have her take an oath and shall say to the woman, "If no man has lain with you and if you have not gone astray into uncleanness, being under the authority of your husband, be immune to this water of bitterness that brings a curse; 

(Nu 5:20 NASB) if you, however, have gone astray, being under the authority of your husband, and if you have defiled yourself and a man other than your husband has had intercourse with you" 

(Nu 5:21 NASB) (then the priest shall have the woman swear with the oath of the curse, and the priest shall say to the woman), "the LORD make you a curse and an oath among your people by the LORD'S making your thigh waste away and your abdomen swell;

(Nu 5:22 NASB) and this water that brings a curse shall go into your stomach, and make your abdomen swell and your thigh waste away." And the woman shall say, "Amen. Amen." 

(Nu 5:23 NASB) 'The priest shall then write these curses on a scroll, and he shall wash them off into the water of bitterness. 

(Nu 5:24 NASB)  'Then he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings a curse, so that the water which brings a curse will go into her and cause bitterness. 

(Nu 5:25 NASB) 'The priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy from the woman's hand, and he shall wave the grain offering before the LORD and bring it to the altar; 

(Nu 5:26 NASB) and the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering as its memorial offering and offer it up in smoke on the altar, and afterward he shall make the woman drink the water.

(Nu 5:27 NASB) 'When he has made her drink the water, then it shall come about, if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, that the water which brings a curse will go into her and cause bitterness, and her abdomen will swell and her thigh will waste away, and the woman will become a curse among her people. 

(Nu 5:28 NASB) 'But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, she will then be free and conceive children. 

(Nu 5:29 NASB) 'This is the law of jealousy: when a wife, being under the authority of her husband, goes astray and defiles herself, 

(Nu 5:30 NASB) or when a spirit of jealousy comes over a man and he is jealous of his wife, he shall then make the woman stand before the LORD, and the priest shall apply all this law to her.

(Nu 5:31 NASB) 'Moreover, the man will be free from guilt, but that woman shall bear her guilt.'"

[Bible Knowledge Commentary On Nu 5:11-31]:

"The Accusation of Adultery (5:11-31)

5:11-15. In the covenant community of Israel adultery, like ceremonial uncleanness and trespass against one's brother or sister (v. 6), was symptomatic of unfaithfulness to the Lord. It therefore could not be tolerated as either a breach of the relationship of husband and wife (Ex. 20:14) or as the expression of covenant infidelity (Ezek. 16). If a man suspected his wife of adultery he was to take her before the priest whether he had proof or not (Num. 5:11-15). Since adultery also was a sin against God the appropriate offering of barley flour was to be taken to the priest and offered before the Lord. The purpose of the offering was to draw attention to guilt (v. 15). (How this was done is explained in vv. 18, 25-26.)

5:16-18. To start the ritual for ascertaining guilt the priest presented the woman before the Lord (i.e., before the tabernacle), took water specially blessed or set apart for such cases, and mixed it with dust from the tabernacle floor. He then loosened the woman's hair and placed the barley offering in her hands... while he held the water jar in his hands. Though the scene so far suggests the magical procedures of pagan trials by ordeal, magic itself is expressly forbidden in the Old Testament (e.g., Deut. 18:9-13). So this ordeal ritual must be understood in terms of the symbolical value of its elements. The barley represents the offering appropriate to judgment, especially since it was not to be mixed with oil or incense (Num. 5:15; cf. Lev. 2:1-2; 5:11-13). The water mixed with dust was holy (Num. 5:17) because it was in a holy vessel (perhaps the bronze basin, Ex. 30:18). The dissolving of the dust in the water may well relate to the eating of dust by the serpent, who had been cursed by the Lord in the Garden of Eden (Gen. 3:14). If the accused woman proved to be guilty she, like the serpent, could expect the curse of God as well. The loosening of her hair, while not a token of her immorality (since that had not been proved), nevertheless reflects the seriousness of the accusation and the presumptive guilt attested by the husband's "feelings of jealousy" (Num. 5:14).

Nu 5:19-31. When all was ready, the priest told the woman she would not be cursed if she were innocent but would be cursed if guilty. She was to reply, So be it. If she was guiltless no ill effect (harm) would follow her drinking of the bitter water, the water mixed with dust. If she was guilty, on the other hand, her guilt would be manifest by the wasting away of her thigh and the swelling of her abdomen. This curse clearly refers to some physical disorder which would render the woman sterile (vv. 27-28). After the woman had taken the oath (v. 22), the ink with which the curses were written was rinsed off the scroll and into the jar of dust and water (v. 23). That is, the woman must now symbolically "eat her words." She then was to drink the potion while the priest offered the barley to the Lord (vv. 24-26). If guilty, she suffered the penalty of the curse. If innocent, she came through unharmed with her child-bearing capacity intact (vv. 27-28). In either case the husband was absolved of guilt for if the wife was innocent he had acted only because he had been affected by a feeling of jealousy over which he had no control (vv. 29-31).
The physical manifestations of guilt were not inherent in the properties of the liquid mixture itself or, as stated earlier, could they be attributed to magic. More likely it was a matter of a psychosomatic reaction caused by genuine guilt or innocence, a reaction prompted by one's conscience and the convicting work of the Holy Spirit."

X) [www.dailykos.com continues]: 

Furthermore, the bible lays out a clear punishment for those who cause an abortion outside of this ritual:

[Ex 21:22] If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

The fine for causing an abortion is a fine of property damage, to be paid to the woman's husband. Why property damage? Because a fetus isn't alive until it has breathed, according to the bible. But if the woman is injured, or dies in the process, then the guy who hit her will be injured or killed in equal measure, an eye for an eye, according to the ancient law.

It can be said with absolute certainty that ancient scripture does not consider a zygote or a fetus even to be alive, because it has not yet drawn breath.

The counterargument is very, very weak, in comparison. It's all semantics. They cannot lay out a consistent theme within the bible on this topic. Instead, they pick a bunch of random verses, throw them together, and hope that no one notices that none of them really make sense in their context. But here, as I have laid out, there is a consistent theme that breath is life. A thing without breath is not alive. A fetus does not have breath, therefor it is not life according to the bible.

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[OK. My turn.

THE BIBLE SPECIFICALLY PRESCRIBES PUNISHMENT OF THE KILLING OF AN UNBORN CHILD

...The key passage that establishes whether an unborn child is a human being and if you take its life it's an act of murder...

[Ex 21:22-23 NAS 1995]:

(v. 22) "And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child [a word which applies to unborn or born child] so that her child comes out [i.e., has a premature delivery] yet there is no injury [to mother or child], he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide.

[Note: Most versions refer to the child literally as "coming out" or render it premature delivery. But the NAS Bible of 1977 has it incorrectly translated as follows:

(Ex 21:22 NAS77) "And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him: and he shall pay as the judges decide."

Later the NAS was corrected to read:

(Ex 21:22 NASB 1995 Update) "If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide."

(v. 23) But if there is any further injury [to mother or child], then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,"

"child" = "harah" = The Hebrew word which is translated here as "child" is the same word which is applied to an unborn or a born child. The Hebrew has no word such as fetus or any word which would distinguish between the child in the womb and the child who is outside the womb.

"miscarriage" = "yatsa" = in the NAS1977 The word rendered "miscarriage" in this version in the Hebrew literally means to "come out," implying alive, especially in the absence of a qualifying word "dead," if dead is meant. It is a word without qualifiers such as "dead" that IS ONLY APPLIED TO LIVE BIRTHS. This word is never applied to a miscarriage where a child is stillborn. It never applies to a baby that is born dead - only to a premature live birth. The translation is verse 22 NAS77 is inaccurate and would then be more accurately be rendered: "she has a premature delivery,"

The word "yatsa" is used only to mean live birth in the Old Testament:

[Gen 25:25-26 NAS]:

(v. 25) "Now the first [baby] came forth red, all over like a hairy garment; and they named him Esau.

(v. 26) And afterward his brother came forth with his hand holding on to Esau's heel, so his name was called Jacob; and Isaac was sixty years old when she gave birth to them."

"came forth" = "yatsa" = "born"

The word "yatsa" here refers to a live birth. Both Jacob and Esau were born alive.

[Compare Gen 38:27-30]:

(v. 27) "And it came about at the time she was giving birth, that behold, there were twins in her womb.

(v. 28) Moreover, it took place while she was giving birth, one put out a hand, and the midwife took and tied a scarlet thread on his hand, saying, 'This one came out first.'

(v. 29) But it came about as he drew back his hand, that behold, his brother came out. Then she said, 'What a breach you have made for yourself!' So he was named Perez.

[i.e., a breach]

(v. 30) And afterward his brother came out who had the scarlet thread on his hand; and he was named Zerah." [i.e. a dawning or brightness]

[Compare Job 3:11]:

"Why did I not die at birth,"

[lit., from the womb]

[Compare Jer 1:5]:

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

[Ex 21:22 NAS cont.]:

"And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child [word which applies to unborn or born child] so that she [lit., her children come out] has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide.

(v. 23) But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,"

Dr Danish, op. cit, cont:

[Verse 22]"...these men struggle with each other, one of them strikes a woman with child so that she has a 'yatsa'. What she has is a premature delivery. And yet there is no... [physical] ...injury... ...And that refers to both of them - to the mother or the child. She's all right and the baby is viable and able to live outside of the womb.

Now we have this further reinforced by the fact that there are Hebrew words... ...which mean being born dead - stillbirth. So that there is an exact word that could have been used if this woman had a miscarriage and had a dead baby... ...that's [what the phrase in this verse]: 'no further injury' [covers]: ...the child was born prematurely, he was not born dead. One of those Hebrew words looks like this 'shakol'... [which is used in several places]:

[Gen 31:38]:

"These twenty years I have been with you; your ewes and your female goats have not miscarried, nor have I eaten the rams of your flocks."

"miscarried" = "shakol" = born dead

[Ex 23:26]:

"There shall be no one miscarrying or barren in your land; I will fulfill the number of your days."

"miscarrying" = "shakol" = giving birth to dead babies

[Job 21:10]:

"His ox mates without fail; His cow calves and does not abort."

"abort" = "shakol" = born dead

[Hos 9:14]:

"Give them, O LORD - what wilt Thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts."

"miscarrying womb" = "shakol" = dead births - a condition where the children are born dead and therefore the mothers have "dry breasts" because there is no one to feed.

There is yet another word that the Holy Spirit could have used: "nephal" which carries the same idea of being born dead.

[Job 3:16]:

"Or like a miscarriage which is discarded, I would not be, As infants that never saw light."

[Ps 58:8]:

"Let them be as a snail which melts away as it goes along, Like the miscarriages of a woman which never sees the sun."

[Dr. Danish, cont]:

"So what happened to this woman in the fight here in Exodus 21 verse 22 is that she had a premature delivery... ...It was not that the child was killed in the process.

And then it says, 'If no other injury the guilty man is going to have to pay an appropriate fine to the husband as determined by him and the judges. The reason for this is that the woman has suffered mental and emotional stress and therefore she is to be recompensed for that by the fine.... [also any punitive damages]

Now supposing the worst thing happened. The baby is killed as a result of this man's deliberate striking of the woman.

(v. 23 NAS) But if there is injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,"

[So the loss of life by either the woman and/or the baby is clearly to result in the loss of life of the man who deliberately struck the woman and caused either woman and/or baby's death. So abortion was a capital crime in Israel and the language here in the Hebrew makes this very clear. Note that if the death of anyone is unintentional then the punishment is not death but the individual responsible must flee to a city of refuge, (cp. Dt 19:4-13). The context of the passage in Exodus 21:22-23 describes a deliberate striking of the woman by one of the men. Notice that verses 24-25 go on to indicate like injury for the injury the man caused, indicating that the punishment must fit the crime. So here in the Old Testament, under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit, the unborn child is given full legal protection. A deliberate act that results in the abortion of an unborn child is determined by God's Word as murder, punishable by death. There is no permission given in the Bible whatsoever for abortion."

XI) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

On a final note, I know this community well enough to know that someone must be asking "So do you really believe that it's acceptable for the intentional or accidental death of a fetus to be considered property damage and a fine paid to the FATHER?"

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[Commendable. BTW fetus is defined in the dictionary as

"fetus
[ˈfēdəs]
NOUN
an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby more than eight weeks after conception.
synonyms:
embryo · fertilized egg · unborn baby · unborn child.

So to kill a human fetus is murder because it is human as you say]

XII) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

 No, I absolutely do not think that's acceptable. I find the idea that a woman could have been made to drink poison because her husband was jealous absolutely repulsive. 

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[Commendable that you don't think that killing a fetus is acceptable. On other hand, you have misinterpreted the passage. Read it again. It was not poison that would cause an unborn fetus to be born dead if she was carrying. Albeit, it was harsh in God's covenant society. Rules were morally far stricter than they are today. And with good reason. Look at the immorality of today's societies. Yet considering that the husband could demand this test / trial of his wife based on no evidence but on a suspicion - even a far fetched, unfounded one, it was nevertheless if one were to represent God on earth as was the Jews' responsibility before a holy God. And Who was behind all of this in a society of God's Chosen People who were to be examples to the rest of the world of godliness and holiness: God Himself. Having that responsibility demanded a lot from His people.

Numbers 5:19-31. When all was ready, the priest told the woman she would not be cursed if she were innocent but would be cursed if guilty. She was to reply, So be it. If she was guiltless no ill effect (harm) would follow her drinking of the bitter water, the water mixed with dust. If she was guilty, on the other hand, her guilt would be manifest by the wasting away of her thigh and the swelling of her abdomen. This curse clearly refers to some physical disorder which would render the woman sterile (vv. 27-28). After the woman had taken the oath (v. 22), the ink with which the curses were written was rinsed off the scroll and into the jar of dust and water (v. 23). That is, the woman must now symbolically "eat her words." She then was to drink the potion while the priest offered the barley to the Lord (vv. 24-26). If guilty, she suffered the penalty of the curse. If innocent, she came through unharmed with her child-bearing capacity intact (vv. 27-28). In either case the husband was absolved of guilt for if the wife was innocent he had acted only because he had been affected by a feeling of jealousy over which he had no control (vv. 29-31).
The physical manifestations of guilt were not inherent in the properties of the liquid mixture itself or, as stated earlier, could they be attributed to magic. More likely it was a matter of a psychosomatic reaction caused by genuine guilt or innocence, a reaction prompted by one's conscience and the convicting work of the Holy Spirit."]

XIII) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

Nor do I think we should try to impose rules for a 5000 year old theocracy on modern people.

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[Your opinion based on what? Do you have a better plan than God has which He inspired to be written in the bible and to be interpreted properly by all men and obeyed. How well has mankind conducted itself outside of being obedient to the teachings of the Bible? It is not a matter of whether but when WW III will occur, and the planet destroyed]

XIV) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

The only reason to study this scripture is to understand the context of the ancient Jewish people whose religion inspired and laid the foundation for ours. 

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[Israel failed so miserably over and over and over again that God declared millennia ago that the Jewish people were no longer His people. Heretofore, they have never been an example to follow - ever. But then Christianity has been a total and complete failure for nearly 2,000 years as well. Neither groups of people followed God's instructions in the Bible.

HOSEA CHAPTERS ONE AND TWO POINT TO A FUTURE GENERATION DESCENDANT FROM THE GODLESS AND ESTRANGED ANCIENT ISRAELITES OF THE NORTHERN KINGDOM. THIS FUTURE GENERATION WILL BELIEVE IN AND BE TRUE TO THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM IN A MESSIAH-SAVIOR DESCENDANT THROUGH ISAAC UNTO ETERNAL LIFE; AND THAT GENERATION OF ISRAEL WILL BE VIEWED ONCE AGAIN BY THE LORD AS HIS PEOPLE, BELOVED AND SONS OF THE LIVING GOD TO RECEIVE PROTECTION AND TEMPORAL BLESSINGS

Hosea chapters one and two point to a future generation descendant from the godless and estranged ancient Israelites of the Northern Kingdom. This future generation will believe in and be true to the faith of Abraham in a Messiah-Savior Descendant through Isaac unto eternal life; and that generation of Israel will be viewed once again by the LORD as His people, beloved and sons of the living God whereupon the LORD will move them into the Promised Land - the future eternal kingdom. A picture of a wife [Israel] being restored to her Husband [the LORD] is portrayed to demonstrate the change in God's point of view relative to Israel, His wife, from being estranged and virtually unmarried to being reconciled and beloved. Note that the phrase 'in that day' in vv. 2:16 and 2:18 refers to when Israel will be occupy the promised land in the eternal kingdom. The picture is one of a final and eternal relationship between God and Israel, the wife of God, her Husband. The phrases "I [God] will bethroth you [Israel] to Me forever," (Hos 2:19); and "Then I [God] will say to those who were not My people, 'You are My people!' And they shall say, 'You are my God!' " (Hos 2:23b), corroborates a future and renewed, intimate and eternal relationship between God and His wife Israel heretofore never attained.

[Hos 1:8-9]:

(Hos 1:8 NKJV) "Now when she had weaned Lo-Ruhamah, she conceived and bore a son.

(Hos 1:9 NIV) Then God said: 'Call his name Lo-Ammi, [lit., 'not my people'] For you are not My people, And I will not be your God.' "

i) The LORD Commands Hosea To Name His Third Child, A Son, Lo-Ammi, Which Means "Not My People." With This The LORD Declares That Due To Their Unfaithfulness The Generation Of Israelites Of The Northern Kingdom Are Not His People, And He Is Not Their God - Temporal But Not Total Destruction Is Imminent

Gomer conceived yet a third time with a son commanded of Hosea by God to be named, "Lo-Ammi" which literally means "not My people." The LORD explains to Hosea the reason for this name - His explanation having Hosea's generation of Israelites of the Northern Kingdom in view: "For you are not My people, And I will not be your God." Temporal destruction is imminent. Notice that the phrase rendered "And I will not be your God" in the NIV is literally, "and I [am] not I AM ('ehyeh) to you" which is closely related to the divine name the LORD to Moses (Ex 3:13-14). So the message to Hosea is that Hosea's generation of the Israelites of the Northern Kingdom will no longer experience the LORD's blessings, nor salvation from temporal destruction. In effect He will not be their God and they will not be His people. The relationship between that generation of the Israelites of the Northern Kingdom and the LORD will be cut off and temporal destruction will become imminent.

On the other hand, Hosea 1:10 indicates that God will restore His relationship with Israel, with descendants of the Northern Kingdom Israelites - a future remnant of believers who will express the faith of Abraham in Abraham's Seed, a Messiah-Savior Descendant, (cf. Hosea 1:10 below):

e) [Hos 1:10]:

(Hos 1:10 NKJV) "Yet the number of the children of Israel Shall be as the sand of the sea, Which cannot be measured or numbered. And it shall come to pass In the place where it was said to them, 'You [are] not My people,' [Then] it shall be said to them, '[You are] sons of the living God.' "

There Will Be A Great Restoration Of The Israelites' Population In The Future. In The Place Where It Was Said To Them "You [Are] Not My People" [Then] It Shall Be Said To Them "[You Are] Sons Of The Living God" Implying That God Will Restore His Broken Relationship With Israel With A Future Generation Of Israelites Who Become Faithful Believers

XV) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

Further than that, I am of the opinion that Christians should be in communication with Rabbinical Judaism, because there are centuries of writings kept by that community that could enrich our understanding of ancient scripture.

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[The Hebrew Bible is the same for both. The Greek Bible miraculously corroborates and fulfills the Hebrew Bible. Judaism and Christianity are a complete ungodly, unbiblical mess. Not worth looking into. Neither teach what the Bible actually says, and neither do you. Both groups and you are so disjointed one from another and within one another; and are so estranged from God's Word as the Bible teaches each would be. The key is to believe in and worship the one God and in His Son Jesus Christ via a careful study and response to all of the 66 books of the Bible. It's not rocket science.

XVI) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

That being said: I do not believe that scripture is holy. 

I don't believe that it is perfect. I do not believe that it is free from errors. I believe, in the words of the founder of my particular sect of Christianity, John Wesley, that scripture is "Sufficient."

The bible is sufficient.

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[Sufficient for what??? It's oft stated purpose is for the salvation unto eternal life for all men.  You have not demonstrated that you are accurately reading it and interpreting it properly . What you believe is one thing, what you can prove is another. Belief in something does not make it true or untrue, . Evidence / facts are your proof.; not feelings or beliefs. Name one error in the Bible. A true error not a fake news error. Have you considered that if it perfectly predicts the future and has no errors in it, that it could be holy = set apart to God, supernaturally written at the hands of flawed authors? A remarkable book to pay attention to?

Sufficient for what?????  To call the Bible sufficient and then denegrate it for having errors is speaking foolishly, incomprehensively]

XVII) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

According to scripture, even God HIMSELF points out that "You can't take this stuff literally."
Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
-Matt. 13:13

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[God never said, "You can't take this stuff literally," paraphrase notwithstanding. When all else fails, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS FROM BEGINNING TO END!!!!! - PROPERLY

Begin at Mt 13:13-17

Or if it is true, you are not a diligent reader, begin at least the part you have in view quoted below:

[Mt 13:10-17]:

(v. 10) '''The disciples came to Him and asked, "Why do You speak to the people in parables?"

(v. 11) He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

(v. 12) Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.

(v. 13) This is why I speak to them in parables:

'Though seeing, they do not see;

though hearing, they do not hear or understand.'

(v. 14) In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;

you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

(v. 15) For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'

(v. 16) But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.

(v. 17) For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it." '''

[Mt 13:11]:

(v. 11) "He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them."

[D. A. Carson states, (Expositor's Bible Commentary, Vol. 8, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1984, pp. 307-308)]:

"Ta mysteria tes basileias ('the secrets of the kingdom') is not explained; its meaning may be deduced by the context and by the use of mysterion ('secret') elsewhere. Mysterion has no obvious connections with pagan mystery religions but reflects a thoroughly Semitic background... It appears in the OT in Daniel... [Aramaic raz] which refers to some eschatological secret, some portent of what God has decreed will take place in the future. The Greek term can also reflect the Hebrew sod ('secret,' 'confidential speech'), taken from the heavenly council... 'Mysteries' are divine plans or decrees, often passed on in veiled language, known only to the elect, and usually relating to eschatological events.

For the 'secrets of the kingdom' to be 'given' the disciples suggests that to them certain eschatological realities are being revealed. What is revealed is not Who Jesus is, the nature of God, or the power of love... rather, the 'mystery of the Kingdom is the coming of the Kingdom into history in advance of its apocalyptic manifestation'... That God would bring in His kingdom was no secret. All Jews looked forward to it. 'The new truth, now given to men by revelation in the Person and mission of Jesus, is that the Kingdom which is to come finally in apocalyptic power, as foreseen by Daniel, has in fact entered into the world in advance in a hidden form to work secretly within and among men'

[It is evident that our Lord intended to bring in His Kingdom had all Israel accepted Him and trusted in Him as Messiah and Savior, (Lk 3:4-6; Mt 4:17); but as predicted this did not happen at that time, (Ps 22, Isa 53). So the Kingdom Age was postponed until the time of the Gentiles was fulfilled, (Ro 11:25; Lk 21:24)]

It is unlikely that the plural 'secrets,' as opposed to Mark's 'secret,' refers to everything Jesus has taught... The strongest reason for the latter view is that some of the parables deal with ethical matters, not eschatology, reflecting, it is argued, the full gamut of Jesus' teaching (e.g., parables of the hidden treasure, of the pearl, of the unforgiving servant). But in reality all such parables, as we shall see, necessarily presuppose some form of realized eschatology to make their ethical demands meaningful. The plural 'secrets' is best accounted for as a typical Matthean preference for the plural (cf. Matt 4:3-Luke 4:3; Matt 8:26-Mark 4:39; Matt 26:15-Mark 14:11; and a regular changing of 'crowd' to 'crowds' at Matt 12:46; 13:2; 14:22; 15:36; 21:46; 23:1; 27:20)...

[Mt 13:11-12]:

(v. 11) "He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

(v. 12) Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him."

[Carson, op. cit., p. 308]:

"The reply to the disciples' question (Matt 13:10) is thus given in terms of election in v. 11, which is further explained in v. 12. Verse 13 [below then] recapitulates the reason for speaking in parables but now frames the reason, not in terms of election, but in terms of spiritual dullness. Matthew has already given Jesus' answer in terms of divine election (v. 11); now He gives the human reason:"

[Mt 13:13]:

(v. 13) "This is why I speak to them in parables:

'Though seeing, they do not see;

though hearing, they do not hear or understand.' "

It is interesting to note that those who do not have the mind of Christ, i.e., unbelievers and even carnal believers who have blocked the mind of Christ that indwells them as a result of their carnality, do not have the capability nor the interest in discerning spiritual truths especially from Scripture and especially that which is in the form of a parable from the Bible:

[1 Cor 2:14-16]:

(v. 14) "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

(v. 15) The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment.

(v. 16) 'For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?' But we have the mind of Christ."

So that at first hand, the unbeliever and the carnal Christian mind is not capable of understanding spiritual things nor is it willing to seek what is truth:

[Ro 3:10]:

(v. 10) "As it is written:

'There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God."

So the parables our Lord spoke required one to be spiritually minded in order to begin to understand what He was saying.

Secondly, the message in our Lord's parables was not readily discernible to those who were spiritually minded until they sought the Lord for an explanation. Most people, even most believers, do not seek the Lord for an explanation for most of what God says in His Word - especially truths that are relayed in parables.

[Carson, op. cit., p. 308-9]:

"Jesus now explicitly applies His answer (vv. 11-12) to those who are not disciples.... hina plus subjunctive [mood] [cp Mk 4:12 = 'in order that'] ...implies that the parables' blinding outsiders is a function of divine election... [and] hoti ('because') ...means that Jesus speaks in parable because the people are spiritually insensitive. Though they 'see,' they do not really 'see', [i.e., comprehend and believe what our Lord is teaching.]...

God's Word portrays God's sovereignty and man's responsibility at the same time as instrumental in man's understanding of His Word. So God's infinite capacity can and does allow for man's responsibility to seek to be successful in understanding what God has said. There is no conflict, as some maintain, for God is Who He is, omnipotent and man is who he is, finite.

[Carson, cont.]:

"Matthew has taken up these themes in greater detail... to affirm that what is taking in the ministry of Jesus is, on the one hand, the decreed will of God and the result of biblical prophecy and, on the other hand, a terrible rebellion, gross spiritual dullness, and chronic unbelief. This places the responsibility for the divine rejection of those who fail to become disciples on their own shoulders while guaranteeing that none of what is taking place stands outside God's control and plan... This sheds much light on the parables. It is naive to say Jesus spoke them so that everyone might more easily grasp the truth, and it is simplistic to say that the sole function of parables to outsiders was to condemn them. If Jesus simply wished to hide the truth from the outsiders, he need never have spoken to them. His concern for mission (9:35-38; 10:1-10; 28:16-20) excludes that idea. So he must preach without casting his pearls before pigs (7:6). He does so in parables: i.e., in such a way as to harden and reject those who are hard of heart and to enlighten - often with further explanation - his disciples. His disciples, it must be remembered, are not just the Twelve but those who were following him...

Thus the parables spoken to the crowds do not simply convey information, nor mask it, but challenge the hearers. They do not convey esoteric content only the initiated can fathom but present the claims of the inaugurated kingdom and the prospects of its apocalyptic culmination in such a way that its implications are spelled out for those in the audience with eyes to see..."

[Compare 2 Cor 3:12-18]:

(v. 13) "We [Church age believers] are not like Moses, who veiled his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it [the glory of God as reflected in the face of Moses, (vv. 7-11)] while the radiance [of God's glory] was fading away.

(v. 14) But their [the Israelites'] minds were made dull; for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.

(v. 15) Even to this day when Moses is read a veil covers their [the Israelites'] hearts.

(v. 16) But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, 'the veil is taken away.' "

Notice again that it is God Who has veiled the minds of th e Israelites, yet it is Israel who has turned away from the Lord."

XVIII) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

According to scripture, even God HIMSELF points out that "You can't take this stuff literally."
Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
-Matt. 13:13

Add that to the quotes from Job about how it's really difficult to understand all this stuff. 

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[Cite the passages in Job and explain how Scripture is so hard to understand, evidently beyond man's capacity. Some things that are stipulated by God on a matter of taking Him by faith are beyond man's finite capacity, others are a matter of man's deliberate foolishness, stubbornness, rebelliousness and sinfulness - but not beyond man's capacity at accountable age. And some things are a matter of believing in Christ - trusting Him at face value in things beyond your comprehension because of Who He is as Scripture proved out Who He is. All in all, understanding the Bible is a matter of a lot of time, careful reading in accordance with the normative rules of language, context and logic as you were supposed to learn in grammar school and thereafter  . It is not rocket science, but it takes lots of time, lots of effort and it is worth the effort if you study the Bible properly. Don't let your stubborn will get in the way]

XIX) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

The bible repeatedly implies in the old and new testaments that it is a metaphorical and esoteric work, and then the voice of God outright says so in the new testament.

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[I find no passages that stipulate that God's Word is   "a metaphorical and esoteric work." Chapters, verses and explanations please - in detail and in accordance with the normative rules of language, context and logic. Otherwise you are blowing in the wind, figuatively speaking - a waste of time for me to investigate - literally speaking. The word metaphorical means not literal, but figurative. To say that the Bible is wholly or even largely figurative is foolishness. There are thousands of literal and thousands of figurative expressions in the Bible, and thousands which are both literal and figurative in the same passage. It all depends upon language, context and logic within the passage at hand. Jesus Christ, a literal man with that name, literally died on the cross in a literal payment for the literal sins of everyone who ever lived - literally. God is literally Creator of all creation; Jesus is the figurative door through Whom by faith one may come to the Father.

Esoteric means private, not readily revealed, not comprehended - with a sense in the context of the Bible that one does not understand / comprehend what the Bible is saying , that it is beyond the capacity of most if not all men to read and understand. This contradicts your previous statements - declarative statements which imply that you know what the Bible is saying. They are about your view of the Bible which implies that you think you do understand it, such statements are made in this font color above. On the other hand your reflections about what the Bible is saying do indicate that you have not really done justice to whatever you read in the Bible by reading it properly ; hence your statements indicate that you largely have a false interpretation of what God's Word is actually saying, ironic. So from what I have read of your blog, you are of the opinion, albeit unsubstantiated, that the Bible is wholly incomprehensible. I might add that if you actually read the  bible properly you would arrive at a true understanding of what the Bible actually says - outside of whether or not you believe what it says is true. And only then would you be justified in offering up your opinion of its validity proving out every point via the normative rules of language, context and logic . First things first, read something properly, then report what the author actually wrote, then critique the value of that report without editorializing it. 

Whereupon you stated "[The bible repeatedly implies in the old and new testaments that it is a metaphorical and esoteric work,] and then and then the voice of God outright says so in the new testament."  I do not find this in the Bible at all. Please provide chapters and verses; observations and reports; and then a critique. Which New Testament verses + provide an exegesis of those verses along with a report of what the author is actually saying via the normative rules of language, context and logic, then critique that report as to the validity of it.

XIXa) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

As far as scripture's go, the bible suffices. It's pretty okay. 

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[Explain. Suffices to what end? Too many of your statements are open ended and incomprehensible, unlike the Bible. One second you denigrate the Bible as incomprehensible, then in the next second you simply say "As far as scripture's go, the bible suffices. It's pretty okay." 

XX) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

It has some pretty major problems if you take it literally, because it describes a code of laws designed to hold a society together in absolutely barbaric conditions, but if we're being honest here, my proto-celtic ancestors probably weren't any better 5000 years ago. 

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[Explain. The Bible has many literal and figurative expressions. It cannot all be taken literally or all figuratively. Jesus is not a door / gate with hinges and a door handle. Creation was plausibly completed in six literal 24 hour days. The God of the Bible as the Scriptures describe Him certainly could create the heavens and the Earth in an instant out of nothing or 6 24 hour days as it indicates . That is the power which the Bible indicates He has. Think about it. Can you disprove that the literal six day Creator, Intelligent Designer, God of the Bible does not exist. What is your evidence. Evolution??? There is not sufficient, consistent evidence for Evolution - which ever of the ever changing myriad of 'models' you choose to look at including the totally inconsistent fossil / rock strata that appears differently all over the earth to call it theory, scientific, plausible. But take a look at life, especially the human form of life = the most complex thing in the universe which is irreducibly complex and demands an Intelligent Designer. For there isn't enough time for man to evolve from nothing at all according to which ever ever changing model of Evolution you adhere to in the face of what you think God did according to the Bible you misinterpret yet is #1 in your Wesleyan Quadrilateral philosphy? Who do you think created Man? Which account of the many 'models' of godless creation do you support which nevertheless keeps changing? Note that kidney beans have some similar DNA formats to humans that apes don't have. So what happened, apes evolved into the kidney bean which evolved into man? . If you have no actual points that are evidentially substantial, then is it not plausible given such a God of the Bible, properly interpreted, exists that He created the heavens and the earth in a literal six 24 hour days each one with an evening and a morning as the account literally reads? . In your proof explain the irreducible complexity of man all the way down to the simplest of living beings that only such a God could thereby as an Intelligent Designer create out of nothing. To be objective, you have to read without prejudice: following the normative rules of language, context and logic . Read it honestly, observe and report AGAIN without prejudice. You may not believe what it is saying, but do not adjust what you read and report to suit your own belief system. It is not your job when reading it to critique it on the basis of what you believe. Once you have thoroughly read and reported what it actually says, then it is time to critique its validity on the basis of what you can prove yourself is true - NOT ON THE BASIS OF WHAT YOU BELIEVE!!!!  

XXI) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

As far as the rest of the stuff in the book, it's got some problems here in there with internal errors and inconsistencies, where it disagrees with itself, especially about women, but overall, it suffices.

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[No it does not have internal errors and inconsistencies. Name one, give me your best shot. Check first here if I haven't already refuted the point you wish to make , or if you are quoting a bad translation. You cannot blame the Bible for a translator's mistake or a wrong interpretation based on improper reading. And make sure what you claim the Bible says is actually in the Bible given a proper and honest reading

XXII) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

It's very, very important to note that the bible is not meant to be the center of the Christian faith. Jesus, and his teachings, are meant to be the center of the Christian faith. 

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[Nonsense!! Jesus is the center of the Bible Who being God inspired the human authors to write the books of the Bible!!]

XXIII) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

So if you run into one of these fundamentalsts who talk about how the bible is the foundation for their faith (rather than Christ) you're dealing with someone that ancient Christians would have considered an idolatrous heretic (read: dangerous moron.)

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[They are one and the same - provided one interprets and responds to the Bible properly !!! Where else are you going to get accurate information about Jesus? One does not worship God's Word when one studies to show oneself approved as Paul commanded all believers to do , one simply reads it and exercises faith / obedience as the passage calls for. After all Who is it Who inspired God's Word to be written down by 40 authors???? Where else are you going to get reliable information about Jesus???]

XXIV) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

The bible is a very difficult book to understand 

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[You evidently have not spent enough time studying the Bible to conclude that. Probably because you don't want to. You don't even faithfully follow the proper rules of reading that you learned in grammar school. Begin at the beginning of a Book, read, study, take notes like any other subject you were supposed to study in school. Follow these rules. It's not rocket science. But above all be honest, read, observe and report DO NOT EDITORIALIZE OR CHERRY PICK  GOD IS WATCHING!!!! :   

XXV) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

The bible is a very difficult book to understand and to use because it is not internally consistent, it does not claim to be perfect, and it is mistranslated. 

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[Yes it is internally consistent, and it is perfect - that's not an unsubstantiated claim on my part: keep reading. Yet often it is mistranslated. But a careful examination using resources that one may easily obtain, one may resolve these mistranslations : Find one inconsistency for me and I will show you how to resolve the conflict properly. Cite the passage, and prove out your inconsistency. Establish the context, who, what, why, where, when, how, to whom then make your point following the rules of reading. You are not permitted to cherry pick words from another passage and impose them on a passage at hand. That's what you have been doing and that's not how your teachers taught you to read. Try that on a Judge presiding over a trial you are defending yourself in and you may lose your freedom or assets.]

XXVI) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

So we Methodists have a Method (that's how we got our name) for understanding the world:
1. Scripture
2. Tradition
3. Reason
4. Experience

So lets use that, what we call the Wesleyan Quadrilateral, to think about, oh, the Age of Planet Earth, shall we?

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[The first thing you mention in your Wesleyan Quadrilateral after totally denegrating the Bible is  "Scripture". Totally hypocritical. You don't even evidence a modicum of respect for the Bible, calling it erroneous, inconsistent, metaphorical and esoteric in the sense of incomprehensible without even proving your case - except to cherry pick, misread that which is figurative, and misread that which is literal, plucking verses out of their context and comparing them with other verses out of context. Hardly spending any time proving out your case. That evidently is the means by which you interpret Scripture??????  And then you list "Scripture" on the top of your list by which you determine the value of things in this world. Then it is really not Scripture at all except God's Word as editorialized by the mind of sinful Wesleyan men. Then you list thereafter three untrustworthy things according to the Bible - again misreading and contradicting God's Word which you hold so dear:

"2. Tradition
3. Reason
4. Experience"  

So you hold man's Tradition, man's Reason and man's Experience higher than God's Word which finds these three things in man as sinful, deeply flawed and untrustworthy??? Just take a look at Ro 3:9-20, 23, 23; Ps 51:5; Mk 7:21; Jer 17:9; Eccl 7:20 

Romans 3:9-20, 23 (NASB)
9  What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;
10  as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11  THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12  ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
13  "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";
14  "WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS";
15  "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
16  DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
17  AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN."
18  "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."
19  Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
20  because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
23  for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"

Are you telling me that all 40 Bible authors were Wesleyan Methodists using your Wesleyan Quadrilateral method in order to arrive at the truth which they wrote in God's Word which then includes yet overrides the godly thinking of the Holy Spirit Who inspired them?? Nonsense. The Holy Spirit's method which presides over all other methods of interpretation which has proved itself out countless times is to simply follow the normative rules of language, context and logic because that is the only method that is common to the understanding amongst all accountable individuals ; and it is the only method which proves out inerrancy and perfect corroboration and perfect fulfillment of prophecy - which is not dependent upon the Wesleyan Quadrilateral. God does not play games like man does. You are responsible to determine the proper meanings of God's Word because God holds you accountable - so go get 7 good translations, an interlinear, a dictionary, a grammar book, some reliable commentaries, the ear of several reliable and real Christian friends who you may confer with, et. al. Get saved according to Scripture and then serious about being a faithful and obedient student of God's Word, not cereal as in Corn Flakes. Don't play with your food, study it! Follow the established rules of reading - rules which you follow when it comes to business contracts such as leases, sales agreements that effect your personal wealth. How much more valuable is your eternal destiny and your relationship with God your mortal life? Thereby you have no excuse and cannot claim ignorance of the manner in which you are to receive information from God via His Word. And leave your Wesleyan Quadrilateral out of it.]

XXVII) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

Reason and Experience (through TESTABLE BLEEPING MEASUREMENTS) tell us that the world was not made in seven days, and is in fact, billions of years old.

[biblestudymanuals.net]

Nonsense. Man's reason and experience are not trustworthy. You are evidently ignorant of the scientific method which must be followed if you are to prove anything: to be scientific it must be observable, repeatable, falsifiable. Has anyone observed all creation repeatedly, and in view of control mechanisms that must also be refuted like the plausibility of an Intelligent Designer? Is anyone that old - if the universe is that old? Man's reason is flawed and you know it. There is so much disagreement over evolution and creation within the confines of those who espouse their particular model that there is no trusting this one and that one for any reasonable length of time before another 'theory' [proposed model which has not been proved - there are no actual theories because the models are not scientifically proved out] replaces this one or that one. Evolution is in disarray as it always has been with string theory, multiverses, neodarwinism, et. al. The irreducible complexity of living beings makes the evolution of the universe impossible, an intelligent designer more than plausible - necessary. Have you bothered to even study these subjects in detail via the normative rules of language, context and logic. I have .

If you really respect Scripture God's way, then study, not just read Gen 1 - six literal 24 hour days each with a morning and an evening, each "yom" day with an ordinal adjective signifying a literal 24 hour day. . And with God commanding His chosen people to rest on the 7th day after He had created the heavens and earth in six days; if those six days were billions of years, do you think God would command His chosen people to rest on the 7th day of billions of years, or was it a Saturday of 24 hours? Couldn't God have created everything in any mode of time He willed?

XXVIII) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

Tradition tells me that for hundreds of years, human society has been developing wonderful and terrible new technologies using the same methods we use to examine the age of the earth.

[biblestudymanuals.net]

Age dating methods are flawed, wholly inconsistent and dishonestly used. Just google it and find out: . 

I recall one example where there was one large, long rock where it might have frequently rained containing uranium & lead that the dating method had measured one end to be millions of years older than the other end???? The scientists took the age that best supported their point of view relative to their presupposed geologic column that evolutionists go by. They were not concerned with the fact that uranium is soluble and probably leached out a lot over those millions of years as rains came leaving the insoluble lead behind to provide a false reading of the age of the rock. Who cares, so long as the guestimates in the textbooks are corroborated. By the way, age dating methods are not used to develop all technologies. They weren't used to device cell phones, or dating sites on the internet.]

XXIX) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

Tradition tells me that those methods work. 

[biblestudymanuals.net]

You trust in the traditions of men which the bible and history show are untrustworthy. I'll trust in Jesus Christ and in His instructions in His Word, the Bible - which He inspired. They have not changed and both Jesus and the Word of God are arguably totally trustworthy without error]

XXX) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

The tradition of my denomination of Christianity has been to build schools, to value knowledge, and to support science, to the degree that a Methodist named George Washington Rappalyea was so incensed by a law against the teaching of evolution, that he encouraged his friend John Scopes to challenge the law in that whole monkey trial.

[biblestudymanuals.net]

Contratulations. So do many other groups of people - charitible, religious, non-religious, Communist, Socialist, Capitalist, Atheist, Polytheist, political, grateful, successful, businesses, private parties, build schools, value man's viewpoint of knowledge, (hardly ever the biblical viewpoint of God), and support science [true and fake / such as evolution and it's phony geological strata that is so inconsistent throughout the world that it's a joke amongst evolutionists today who espouse catastrophism ... [recall the catastrophic world wide flood of Genesis 6 that was responsible for the real and varying geological strata AND NOT THE FAKED GEOLOGICAL AGES ] 

So George Washington Rappalyea knows more than Jesus Christ and the Bible about Creation????? Did not the Word / Jesus Christ /  the Son of God create all things:

John 1:1-3 (HCSB)
1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2  He was with God in the beginning.
3  All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created,

Genesis 1:1-2 (NASB)
1  In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2  The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

And Who do you think is The Word??? 

And Who do you think inspired every word that was written in Scripture - God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Or have you forgotten?? Oh that's right. You can't take the Bible literally - despite the language of innumerable passages being literal - normatively read like you learned to read in grammar school - despite the inerrency of God's Word when READ PROPERLY.

Don't you take your business contracts literally and get paid or pay according to the literal words or can you take liberties or be forced by people that owe you money to treat their contract with you figuratively? Does 6 days mean a literal six 24 hour day's grace period to pay up or can you take it metaphorically and lose your business or go scott free from owing you?] 

XXXI) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

And finally, on the age of the earth, scripture tells me, simply, "I TEACH IN METAPHOR, DUMMY. I'm USEFUL, not PERFECT OR LITERAL..

[biblestudymanuals.net]

Try again. God is not just useful, according to Scripture He is Literally, not figuratively, Absolutely: Omnipotent, Righteous, Almighty, Omniscient, Holy, Gracious, Creator, Eternal, Agape Love, Immutable, Omnipresent. He is not a dummy that can't tell the difference between literal and figurative; nor is He flawed in what He inspired the writers to write down so that the Bible is not knowable to accountable individuals to whom it was written. It is evident that you cannot tell the difference between literal and figurative because of your predisposition about God's Word which you are unwilling to test out via careful, proper reading of the Bible. You have to pay attention to language, context and logic to determine literal vs figurative. It's your will that is holding you back, not your intellect or your reading skills.

XXXII) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

So on the question of the Age of the Earth, the Wesleyan Quadrilateral lays out pretty clearly and pretty easily that A) Science is real and does not teach in esoteric metaphor, and B) the Age of the Earth is whatever science tells us it is, because there can be no logical conflict between a book of esoteric metaphor, and a treatise of testable fact. I mean that. It is mathematically impossible for esoteric metaphor to conflict with testable fact. It's like adding matter and antimatter together. You'll just make a great big damn mess.

[biblestudymanuals.net]

The bible - all 66 books of it - is NOT esoteric metaphor - it is an inerrant work of figurative and literal statements that predicts the future perfectly, conveys an absolutely corroborated, non-contradictory message properly read / properly interpreted, namely via the normative rules of language, context and logic , which so far you have not bothered to adhere to reading it properly. Many things that people present and say are science are not always "a treatise of testable [scientific] fact," such as certain treatises on evolution, paleontology, age dating results that are so flawed they are a joke. The basis for determining things that you cannot repeatedly observe and falsify can never be scientific. You cannot observe, repeat and falsify how nature / creation came to exist today scentifically. Therefore nature / creation as we see it today can only be investigated on the basis of plausible, scientifically arrived at pieces of evidence that have been scientifically verified and which point to that which is most evidently plausible and causative of one model [not theory]: creation by an Intelligent Designer or the other model evolution which has multiple versions and which has constantly changed. None of this can be wholly theoretical because theories must be repeatedly observable and falsifiable. A common error whether deliberate, which I suspect is more often the case, or not is to rule out creation by an Intelligent Designer when certain scientific evidence is a plausible explanation of evolution - ignoring the other side of the argument, often stating that religous discussions have no place in the scientific world.For scientific evidence often points to the plausibility of both models at the same time - neither one being ruled out in favor of the other yet utilizing the same scienific evidence. 

Note the hypocrisy: Evolution is not science either - any more than religion is even from the Bible because neither can be repeatedly observed or falsified. However this remains to actually be seen by believers when God will create the new heavens and the new earth. . Since I hold the Bible to be wholly reliable properly interpreted BY READING IT HONESTLY AND PROPERLY AS YOU LEARNED BEGINNING IN GRAMMAR SCHOOL so far since I have been studying it for decades; then until something better comes along I'll go with God and salvation through His Son unto eternal life and totally enjoy observing God create the New Heavens and the New Earth. But that will be too late for anyone who has not trusted in Jesus Christ for eternal life to live forever in their new home.

On the question of the Age of the Earth, real science is more corroborative of the Word of God than of so called "scientific models," expecially those based on the geologic /fossil strata / record and especially in view of the evidence of a catastrophic worldwide flood that plausibly caused the geologic rock strata to be so varied in reality despite the paleontological text books that insist on uniformity when it is and has been observed by all as varied all over the earth - even geologists and paleontologists . 

Properly read, the Bible contains innumerable passages that are either figurative, literal or both which corroborate better the evidence that can be scientifically arrived at on many "scientific" matters - better than the fake scientific models offered by evolutionists who now lean in the direction of catastrophism after years of claiming false scientifcally contrived evidence of a uniformitarianistic nature, when the evidence points to catastrophism - even to the extent of their "camp" concluding that there is a 'God particle' which serves as a kind of Intelligent Designer in lieu of their repeated failures to explain their lack of evidence for gradualism and billions of years of evolution and missing links between species. In the light of the irreducible complexity of lifeforms, especially the most complex organism on the planet: humans , an Intelligent Designer is the only plausible answer

XXXIII) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

A literal reading of the bible is logically inconsistent, both because God says "I teach in metaphor," and because the strongest claim that scripture makes about itself is that it is A) God Breathed, and B) Useful.

[biblestudymanuals.net]

We have already discovered that the Bible, properly read, can be literal, figurative or both. It is consistently logical when it is properly read. Just exercise your reading skills and stop cherry picking - now that's illogical and dishonest. Use you dictionary, grammar books if you've forgotten what nouns and verbs are, et. al., books on logic, context, et. al. Read it in the order that it was written. Then begin at the beginning of one of the 66 books, read like you intend to do a book report and get an 'A' from the Teacher. Honor the authors with an honest effort. You will be judged. Again, the phrase rendered "God breathed" is figurative. God does not have lungs to breathe with. Can you figure out what the phrase means? I'll leave the obvious to you. 

The word rendered "Useful" you cherry picked as well: Explain the passage which 2 Tim 3:16 is located in. Suggest you read before and after to get the context as best you can - the who, what, why, where, when, to whom, how of it. Do your homework, don't be a cherry picker - it only produces rotten fruit when you do it with God's inspired / breathed words:

2 Timothy 3:14-17 (NASB)
14  You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
15  and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 

[Note these italicised / underlined words above especially - and those below]

16  All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17  so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

XXXIV) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

And the thing is, if you were paying attention to the first verse we quoted, ADAM was also God-breathed. And look at what happened to him.

[You will notice that you are once more comparing apples and oranges, no I take that back you are comparing rocks and marshmallows. You have your blinders on and you are blind drunk from eating a batch of rotten cherries you picked out of separate passages. Each verse has its own meaning - its own context. Do you know what context means? Go get a decent commentary, and a dictionary that tells you that words have a number of meanings, so apply the one THAT BEST FITS THE CONTEXT!!!! How many times did you have to take grammar school reading lessons?

XXXV) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

Anyone who thinks that the bible is anything more than "useful" needs to go reexamine their life, their beliefs, and the very scriptures they read (which by the way do not even claim to be inerrant, much less perfect.)

[biblestudymanuals.net]

Written by one who does not know how to read or prefers to trash something he has not bothered to investigate, much less read properly. Do you even possess a dictionary?

Per’fect
a. [OE. parfit, OF. parfit, parfet, parfait, F. parfait, L. perfectus, p. p. of perficere to carry to the end, to perform, finish, perfect; per (see Per-) + facere to make, do. See Fact.]
1. Brought to consummation or completeness; completed; not defective nor redundant; having all the properties or qualities requisite to its nature and kind; without flaw, fault, or blemish; without error; mature; whole; pure; sound; right; correct.
Webster's 1913 Unabridged English Dictionary,

There are many passages that imply that the value of God's Word the 66 Books of the Bible are completely beneficial, without a failure to that end.

Now look up these verses if you have a Bible and check the translation to make sure it reflects the original text. If you don't have these resources go get them and be silent until you have the right tools to do the job. Then read each passage and determine what is stipulated and what is implied. For example, if God's Word is truth, this implies that it is true throughout and cannot therefore have any untruth, hence any imperfection in that regard. And if God - the God of the Bible is declared Holy and Righteous in the sense of absolutely Holy and absolutely Righteous then Absolute Perfection is implied. That is the God of the Bible. And that is the character of His Word PROPERLY AND CORRECTLY INTERPRETED. You have to do your homework. You cannot be a lazy, arrogant student. He will work with you if you will be a good, diligent student. Just like a good human teacher only perfect and far more demanding but to your own righteous and blessed eternity should you become a believer by trusting alone in Christ alone for eternal life. Then begins your journey into a blessed eternity, with eternal rewards awaiting you should you walk faithfully as well.

Ps 19:7; 2 Tim 3:15-17; Ps 119 all

If the Bible has errors in it, then it is not the Word of God, for God cannot lie (Titus 1:2; 2 Sam 7:28; Ps 119:105; John 17:17; Rom 3:4; 2 Tim 3:16; 2 Pet 1:20-21; Rev 22:6).

Jesus said, “Your word is truth” (John 17:17). To be true is to be without error in the sense of not telling anything false. Perfection is implied.

2 Peter 1:20-21 

20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation of things. 

21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Ps 119 throughout declares the value of God's Word to the extent it qualifies as perfect:

Psalm 119:1-176 (NASB)
1  How blessed are those whose way is blameless, Who walk in the law of the LORD.
2  How blessed are those who observe His testimonies, Who seek Him with all their heart.
3  They also do no unrighteousness; They walk in His ways.
4  You have ordained Your precepts, That we should keep them diligently.
5  Oh that my ways may be established To keep Your statutes!
6  Then I shall not be ashamed When I look upon all Your commandments.
7  I shall give thanks to You with uprightness of heart, When I learn Your righteous judgments.
8  I shall keep Your statutes; Do not forsake me utterly!
9  How can a young man keep his way pure? By keeping it according to Your word.
10  With all my heart I have sought You; Do not let me wander from Your commandments.
11  Your word I have treasured in my heart, That I may not sin against You.
12  Blessed are You, O LORD; Teach me Your statutes.
13  With my lips I have told of All the ordinances of Your mouth.
14  I have rejoiced in the way of Your testimonies, As much as in all riches.
15  I will meditate on Your precepts And regard Your ways.
16  I shall delight in Your statutes; I shall not forget Your word.
17 Deal bountifully with Your servant, That I may live and keep Your word.
18  Open my eyes, that I may behold Wonderful things from Your law.
19  I am a stranger in the earth; Do not hide Your commandments from me.
20  My soul is crushed with longing After Your ordinances at all times.
21  You rebuke the arrogant, the cursed, Who wander from Your commandments.
22  Take away reproach and contempt from me, For I observe Your testimonies.
23  Even though princes sit and talk against me, Your servant meditates on Your statutes.
24  Your testimonies also are my delight; They are my counselors.
25  My soul cleaves to the dust; Revive me according to Your word.
26  I have told of my ways, and You have answered me; Teach me Your statutes.
27  Make me understand the way of Your precepts, So I will meditate on Your wonders.
28  My soul weeps because of grief; Strengthen me according to Your word.
29  Remove the false way from me, And graciously grant me Your law.
30  I have chosen the faithful way; I have placed Your ordinances before me.
31  I cling to Your testimonies; O LORD, do not put me to shame!
32  I shall run the way of Your commandments, For You will enlarge my heart.
33  Teach me, O LORD, the way of Your statutes, And I shall observe it to the end.
34  Give me understanding, that I may observe Your law And keep it with all my heart.
35  Make me walk in the path of Your commandments, For I delight in it.
36  Incline my heart to Your testimonies And not to dishonest gain.
37  Turn away my eyes from looking at vanity, And revive me in Your ways.
38  Establish Your word to Your servant, As that which produces reverence for You.
39  Turn away my reproach which I dread, For Your ordinances are good.
40  Behold, I long for Your precepts; Revive me through Your righteousness.
41  May Your lovingkindnesses also come to me, O LORD, Your salvation according to Your word;
42  So I will have an answer for him who reproaches me, For I trust in Your word.
43  And do not take the word of truth utterly out of my mouth, For I wait for Your ordinances.
44  So I will keep Your law continually, Forever and ever.
45  And I will walk at liberty, For I seek Your precepts.
46  I will also speak of Your testimonies before kings And shall not be ashamed.
47  I shall delight in Your commandments, Which I love.
48  And I shall lift up my hands to Your commandments, Which I love; And I will meditate on Your statutes.
49  Remember the word to Your servant, In which You have made me hope.
50  This is my comfort in my affliction, That Your word has revived me.
51  The arrogant utterly deride me, Yet I do not turn aside from Your law.
52  I have remembered Your ordinances from of old, O LORD, And comfort myself.
53  Burning indignation has seized me because of the wicked, Who forsake Your law.
54  Your statutes are my songs In the house of my pilgrimage.
55  O LORD, I remember Your name in the night, And keep Your law.
56  This has become mine, That I observe Your precepts.
57  The LORD is my portion; I have promised to keep Your words.
58  I sought Your favor with all my heart; Be gracious to me according to Your word.
59  I considered my ways And turned my feet to Your testimonies.
60  I hastened and did not delay To keep Your commandments.
61  The cords of the wicked have encircled me, But I have not forgotten Your law.
62  At midnight I shall rise to give thanks to You Because of Your righteous ordinances.
63  I am a companion of all those who fear You, And of those who keep Your precepts.
64  The earth is full of Your lovingkindness, O LORD; Teach me Your statutes.
65  You have dealt well with Your servant, O LORD, according to Your word.
66  Teach me good discernment and knowledge, For I believe in Your commandments.
67  Before I was afflicted I went astray, But now I keep Your word.
68  You are good and do good; Teach me Your statutes.
69  The arrogant have forged a lie against me; With all my heart I will observe Your precepts.
70  Their heart is covered with fat, But I delight in Your law.
71  It is good for me that I was afflicted, That I may learn Your statutes.
72  The law of Your mouth is better to me Than thousands of gold and silver pieces.
73  Your hands made me and fashioned me; Give me understanding, that I may learn Your commandments.
74  May those who fear You see me and be glad, Because I wait for Your word.
75  I know, O LORD, that Your judgments are righteous, And that in faithfulness You have afflicted me.
76  O may Your lovingkindness comfort me, According to Your word to Your servant.
77  May Your compassion come to me that I may live, For Your law is my delight.
78  May the arrogant be ashamed, for they subvert me with a lie; But I shall meditate on Your precepts.
79  May those who fear You turn to me, Even those who know Your testimonies.
80  May my heart be blameless in Your statutes, So that I will not be ashamed.
81  My soul languishes for Your salvation; I wait for Your word.
82  My eyes fail with longing for Your word, While I say, "When will You comfort me?"
83  Though I have become like a wineskin in the smoke, I do not forget Your statutes.
84  How many are the days of Your servant? When will You execute judgment on those who persecute me?
85  The arrogant have dug pits for me, Men who are not in accord with Your law.
86  All Your commandments are faithful; They have persecuted me with a lie; help me!
87  They almost destroyed me on earth, But as for me, I did not forsake Your precepts.
88  Revive me according to Your lovingkindness, So that I may keep the testimony of Your mouth.
89  Forever, O LORD, Your word is settled in heaven.
90  Your faithfulness continues throughout all generations; You established the earth, and it stands.
91  They stand this day according to Your ordinances, For all things are Your servants.
92  If Your law had not been my delight, Then I would have perished in my affliction.
93  I will never forget Your precepts, For by them You have revived me.
94  I am Yours, save me; For I have sought Your precepts.
95  The wicked wait for me to destroy me; I shall diligently consider Your testimonies.
96  I have seen a limit to all perfection; Your commandment is exceedingly broad.
97  O how I love Your law! It is my meditation all the day.
98  Your commandments make me wiser than my enemies, For they are ever mine.
99  I have more insight than all my teachers, For Your testimonies are my meditation.
100  I understand more than the aged, Because I have observed Your precepts.
101  I have restrained my feet from every evil way, That I may keep Your word.
102  I have not turned aside from Your ordinances, For You Yourself have taught me.
103  How sweet are Your words to my taste! Yes, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
104  From Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way.
105  Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.
106  I have sworn and I will confirm it, That I will keep Your righteous ordinances.
107  I am exceedingly afflicted; Revive me, O LORD, according to Your word.
108  O accept the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, And teach me Your ordinances.
109  My life is continually in my hand, Yet I do not forget Your law.
110  The wicked have laid a snare for me, Yet I have not gone astray from Your precepts.
111  I have inherited Your testimonies forever, For they are the joy of my heart.
112  I have inclined my heart to perform Your statutes Forever, even to the end.
113  I hate those who are double-minded, But I love Your law.
114  You are my hiding place and my shield; I wait for Your word.
115  Depart from me, evildoers, That I may observe the commandments of my God.
116  Sustain me according to Your word, that I may live; And do not let me be ashamed of my hope.
117  Uphold me that I may be safe, That I may have regard for Your statutes continually.
118  You have rejected all those who wander from Your statutes, For their deceitfulness is useless.
119  You have removed all the wicked of the earth like dross; Therefore I love Your testimonies.
120  My flesh trembles for fear of You, And I am afraid of Your judgments.
121  I have done justice and righteousness; Do not leave me to my oppressors.
122  Be surety for Your servant for good; Do not let the arrogant oppress me.
123  My eyes fail with longing for Your salvation And for Your righteous word.
124  Deal with Your servant according to Your lovingkindness And teach me Your statutes.
125  I am Your servant; give me understanding, That I may know Your testimonies.
126  It is time for the LORD to act, For they have broken Your law.
127  Therefore I love Your commandments Above gold, yes, above fine gold.
128  Therefore I esteem right all Your precepts concerning everything, I hate every false way.
129 Your testimonies are wonderful; Therefore my soul observes them.
130  The unfolding of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple.
131  I opened my mouth wide and panted, For I longed for Your commandments.
132  Turn to me and be gracious to me, After Your manner with those who love Your name.
133  Establish my footsteps in Your word, And do not let any iniquity have dominion over me.
134  Redeem me from the oppression of man, That I may keep Your precepts.
135  Make Your face shine upon Your servant, And teach me Your statutes.
136  My eyes shed streams of water, Because they do not keep Your law.
137  Righteous are You, O LORD, And upright are Your judgments.
138  You have commanded Your testimonies in righteousness And exceeding faithfulness.
139  My zeal has consumed me, Because my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
140  Your word is very pure, Therefore Your servant loves it.
141  I am small and despised, Yet I do not forget Your precepts.
142  Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, And Your law is truth.
143  Trouble and anguish have come upon me, Yet Your commandments are my delight.
144  Your testimonies are righteous forever; Give me understanding that I may live.
145  I cried with all my heart; answer me, O LORD! I will observe Your statutes.
146  I cried to You; save me And I shall keep Your testimonies.
147  I rise before dawn and cry for help; I wait for Your words.
148  My eyes anticipate the night watches, That I may meditate on Your word.
149  Hear my voice according to Your lovingkindness; Revive me, O LORD, according to Your ordinances.
150  Those who follow after wickedness draw near; They are far from Your law.
151  You are near, O LORD, And all Your commandments are truth.
152  Of old I have known from Your testimonies That You have founded them forever.
153  Look upon my affliction and rescue me, For I do not forget Your law.
154  Plead my cause and redeem me; Revive me according to Your word.
155  Salvation is far from the wicked, For they do not seek Your statutes.
156  Great are Your mercies, O LORD; Revive me according to Your ordinances.
157  Many are my persecutors and my adversaries, Yet I do not turn aside from Your testimonies.
158  I behold the treacherous and loathe them, Because they do not keep Your word.
159  Consider how I love Your precepts; Revive me, O LORD, according to Your lovingkindness.
160  The sum of Your word is truth, And every one of Your righteous ordinances is everlasting.
161  Princes persecute me without cause, But my heart stands in awe of Your words.
162  I rejoice at Your word, As one who finds great spoil.
163  I hate and despise falsehood, But I love Your law.
164  Seven times a day I praise You, Because of Your righteous ordinances.
165  Those who love Your law have great peace, And nothing causes them to stumble.
166  I hope for Your salvation, O LORD, And do Your commandments.
167  My soul keeps Your testimonies, And I love them exceedingly.
168  I keep Your precepts and Your testimonies, For all my ways are before You.
169  Let my cry come before You, O LORD; Give me understanding according to Your word.
170  Let my supplication come before You; Deliver me according to Your word.
171  Let my lips utter praise, For You teach me Your statutes.
172  Let my tongue sing of Your word, For all Your commandments are righteousness.
173  Let Your hand be ready to help me, For I have chosen Your precepts.
174  I long for Your salvation, O LORD, And Your law is my delight.
175  Let my soul live that it may praise You, And let Your ordinances help me.
176  I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek Your servant, For I do not forget Your commandments.

XXXVI) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

To teach creationism in schools therefor is not only a debasement of science, but a violation of MY faith.  

[biblestudymanuals.net]

You uphold Scripture as #1 in your Wesleyan Quadrilateral philosophy and then say that the creation account properly interpreted in the Bible is a violation of your faith??? Note that you must agree that everyone who denies God as Creator and the account in His Word as accurate will be judged. Will you be so judged?  

There is NO, I repeat NO science that actually is true science: observe, repeat, falsify that explains nature / creation scientifically. You have to observe it repeatedly - were you there as things progressed from the beginning of the universe throughout the time be it short or long so as to take notes and corroborate how the universe progressed toward what you see today - repeatedly, over and over and over again, exhaustively so as to prove it SCIENTIFICALLY????? And as you observed the many events that point to what you see today in creation throughout the universe - yes even to the ends of the universe, are you aware of the controls also test all opposing hypotheses in the same exhaustive manner in order to prove or disprove leaving no doubt as to what is scientific evidence if anything and what is not. So investigate these things SCIENTIFICALLY. 

I researched what I had available to me, so can you - affirm or refute, but get off the pot and get over yourself. Stop repeating what others tell you without evidence and investigate this yourself. Where you go after this life is over depends upon this to the extent that if a Creator God exists and if He proves out to be the God of the Bible then you know that you are accountable to Him and can choose to be blessed and gifted with eternal life with Him or go to eternal condemnation via a single moment of faith alone in His Son alone for your sins - your wrong doing. This is my effort - I did the research not anyone else: ]

XXXVII) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

But fundies find modern mainline Christians to be extremely inconvenient for precisely this reason (we read.)

[biblestudymanuals.net]

[You are speaking irrelevant gibberish. I don't care a whit for fundies - whatever that means to people - and people have all kinds of definitions for that, none of them biblical; nor do I care for mainline Christians who are rarely Christians according to God's Word. So tell me what it takes to be a Christian as defined in the Bible PROPERLY INTERPRETED. Who cares what people define others and themselves as, or what they think without adequate proof of what the Bible actually says. The issue is who are you before God, a child born of God through a moment of faith alone in Christ alone for payment for your sins?  Or what? Or are you just one of His creations not yet destined for eternal life in heaven? The issue is what is truth in accordance with what God has established as true; not how men including yourself define yourself and others via the tradition, reason and experience of men. Truth is measured by evidence not mens' traditions, reason and experience. It is always to be backed up by scientifically arrived at evidence in accordance with the normative rules of language, context and logic with which God's Word was authored which was collected via being repeatedly observed and falsified. If you cannot give the Bible a fair and honest reading THEN STOP TALKING ABOUT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS AND WRITE YOUR OWN BIBLE!!!!! ]

XXXVIII) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

And we can follow that logical quadrilateral method for theological understanding of nearly any issue. 

[biblestudymanuals.net]

There is no such reliable, non-contradictory methodology for theological understanding such as the quadrilateral method that has even been proved out to be trustworthy. As I previously stated above:

The first thing you mention in your Wesleyan Quadrilateral after totally denegrating the Bible is  "Scripture". Totally hypocritical. You don't even evidence a modicum of respect for the Bible, calling it erroneous, inconsistent, metaphorical and esoteric in the sense of incomprehensible without even proving your case - except to cherry pick, misread that which is figurative, and misread that which is literal, plucking verses out of their context and comparing them with other verses out of context. Hardly spending any time proving out your case. That evidently is the means by which you interpret Scripture?????? And then you list "Scripture" on the top of you list by which you determine the value of things in this world. Then it is really not Scripture at all except God's Word as editorialized by the mind of sinful Wesleyan men. Then you list thereafter three untrustworthy things according to the Bible - again misreading and contradicting God's Word which you hold so dear:

"2. Tradition
3. Reason
4. Experience"  

So you hold man's Tradition, man's Reason and man's Experience higher than God's Word which finds these three things in man as sinful, deeply flawed and untrustworthy??? Just take a look at Ro 3:9-20, 23, 23; Ps 51:5; Mk 7:21; Jer 17:9; Eccl 7:20 

Romans 3:9-20, 23 (NASB)
9  What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;
10  as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11  THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12  ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
13  "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";
14  "WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS";
15  "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
16  DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
17  AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN."
18  "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."
19  Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
20  because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
23  for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"

Are you telling me that all 40 Bible authors were Wesleyan Methodists using your Wesleyan Quadrilateral method in order to arrive at the truth which they wrote in God's Word which then includes yet overrides the godly thinking of the Holy Spirit Who inspired them?? Nonsense. The Holy Spirit's method which presides over all other methods of interpretation which has proved itself out countless times is to simply follow the normative rules of language, context and logic because that is the only method that is common to the understanding amongst all accountable individuals ; and it is the only method which proves out inerrancy and perfect corroboration and perfect fulfillment of prophecy - which is not dependent upon the Wesleyan Quadrilateral. God does not play games like man does. You are responsible to determine the proper meanings of God's Word because God holds you accountable - so go get 7 good translations, an interlinear, a dictionary, a grammar book, some reliable commentaries, the ear of several reliable and real Christian friends who you may confer with, et. al. Get saved according to Scripture and then get serious about being a faithful and obedient student of God's Word, not cereal as in Corn Flakes. Don't play with your food, study it! Follow the established rules of reading - rules which you follow when it comes to business contracts such as leases, sales agreements that effect your personal wealth. How much more valuable is your eternal destiny and your relationship with God in your mortal life and for the rest of eternity? Thereby you have no excuse and cannot claim ignorance of the manner in which you are to receive information from God via His Word. And leave your Wesleyan Quadrilateral out of it.]

XXXIX) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

It [Wesleyan Quadrilateral] tells us that women should be treated equally as men in law, in church teachings and hierarchy, and in society. 

[biblestudymanuals.net]

[If this is so, then delete point number one of your Wesleyan Quadrilateral because you do not represent Scripture accurately to say the least:

"So we Methodists have a Method (that's how we got our name) for understanding the world:
1. Scripture
2. Tradition
3. Reason
4. Experience"

First of all you say, "women should be treated equally as men in law, in church teachings and hierarchy, and in society." Which law, church teachings, hierarchy, society??? Your statement is ridiculously general. What about case for case basis - based upon individual capacities, ages, personal choices including those who decide to do evil vs those who decide to do human good / abide by laws, weight, height, positions in the family - parents, age, children, girl or boy [you know that boys differ from girls don't you?], business, society, and most of all I REPEAT: personal choices people make demand different responses based on those choices, etc. 

OR START MAKING THE SAME SIZED PAJAMA OUTFITS SAME COLOR ONE SIZE FITS ALL FOR ALL PEOPLE AND FORCE EVERYONE TO BE A COMMUNIST A LA KARL MARX.
What are you an anarchist, communist, fascist or just plain foolish? God's Word also says differently. So delete "1. Scripture" off your list, or replace God instead of you as Sovereign. He knows a little more about people than you do. 

XXXX) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

It [Wesleyan Quadrilateral] tells us that LGBT folks should have exactly the same rights as the rest of humanity.

[Then you are the self appointed dictator of the new world order communist party. Do you have the capacity of God to be world dictator in a benevolent and powerful way? But what does God's Word say about homosexuality and why????  Are you smarter than God???? Do you know better. TAKE SCRIPTURE OFF YOUR LIST - DON'T BE HYPOCRITICAL AND PRETEND TO KNOW BETTER ABOUT MORALS THAN GOD DOES!!! WRITE YOU OWN BIBLE WHAT WOULD JOHN WESLEY SAY??? Answer: Unbiblical, wrong:

https://www.wesleyan.org/a-wesleyan-view-of-homosexuality-235?

BTW, as communist dictator, what will you do if your own personal moral laws are violated. Will you execute those who violate your own set of personal moral laws, such as me who holds to God's Word?

XXXXI) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

It [Wesleyan Quadrilateral] tells us that nuclear weapons are abhorrent, even though there is no mention of nuclear weapons in the bible. 

[Chapter and verse please. [hint "swords into plowshares" would that passage cover all weapons including nuclear ones? Was not war & nuclear war in Revelation at times so described DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!!

BTW Did not God authorize Israel to arm themselves and take over the promised land?  And is not Jesus' Weaponry far greater than nuclear weapons. Should He disarm when He comes again? After all you seem to indicate that He should allow all kinds of people to do as they choose, including not worshipping or believing in Him. Why should He be allowed to punish sin? Who is He to declare right from wrong when you have a better, more just point of view than He does???? 

XXXXII) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

It [Wesleyan Quadrilateral] tells us that torture is wrong, even though the bible documents great evils being done to civilians captured in warfare. It tells us that human sexuality is not sinful unless it violates consent. And it tells us that scripture is neither perfect, nor literal.

[Chapter, verse and careful examination please. Is it wrong for the Bible to document evil????  If I report evil to the police in a 911 call am I myself guilty of doing wrong?? Why do you think God inspired the writers of the Bible to document evil? Do you know ANYTHING about determining context????? Is reporting evil causing evil???? Where does the Bible tell "us that human sexuality is not sinful unless it violates consent" - again, so general without details that you again sound incomprehensible, evidently unwilling to provide evidence of your conclusions in order to force your unsubstantiated point of view upon others who don't wish to check out your unsubstantiated point opinions. God's Word is clear, study it and observe it and report what the writer wrote OBJECTIVELY & WITHOUT PREJUDICE in detail so that your conclusions can be verified or refuted.]

XXXXIII) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

And while there are people who might dispute my methods and my beliefs within Christianity, and even within Methodism, I'll remind you that the Methodist church is (albiet in the most wishy-washy way possible) committed to guaranteeing that abortions are safe and legal. That's why two official arms of the Methodist church, the GBCS, and the United Methodist Women, are members of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice. Also the Methodist Federation for Social Action, which is an unofficial group within the Methodist church that does awesome work.
So that's the scriptural evidence on abortion, and how fundamentalists are wrong from a theological perspective.

[Wrong on so many counts. I've looked into the passages that www.dailykos.com cited and determined by careful reading that abortion is murder. Go back to Scripture and do your homework!!! Here are some more passages that prove out abortion is wrong! . If you don't like the Bible's viewpoint on abortion, write your own Bible, don't pretend you are God Who Created all things and is Sovereign over all His creation. You are not God. I know this because your semantic skills are not even as good as mine!!! And I did not even graduate from college.]

XXXXIV) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

Stay tuned for next Wednesday, when I'll write about how the anti-choice viewpoint is completely morally abhorrent from any perspective.
3:21 PM PT: I seriously did not expect a diary on arcane bits of scripture to make it to the reclist, even though I think this point is important, and illuminates an important fact:
The anti-choice movement is uninterested in scripture or ethics, they are interested in controlling women through a series of unamerican, theocractic laws.

[The issue is not how you take this to heart. What ever you write about on this issue remember the number 1 part of the Methodists ... Method (that's how we got our name) for understanding the world:
1. Scripture
2. Tradition
3. Reason
4. Experience"

Either remove it, be true to it, or write your own Bible. You know that God is watching you and will indeed hold you accountable, especially when you portend to represent Him by declaring what the Bible says, albeit completely misinterpreted - I suspect willfully and deliberately!

On a final note, I know this community well enough to know that someone must be asking "So do you really believe that it's acceptable for the intentional or accidental death of a fetus to be considered property damage and a fine paid to the FATHER?"

No, I absolutely do not think that's acceptable. 

[biblestudymanuals.net]

[Do you speak for the God of the Bible? If you think you do, then determine for sure, 'What does the God of the Bible say?' Cite chapter and verse and a proper detailed analysis. At least respect the people of your blog and give them credible evidence from the Scripture that you claim to represent instead of the fake theology that you have given in this particular blog. OR  TAKE OFF THE NUMBER 1 THING YOU SAY YOU REPRESENT AND WRITE YOUR OWN BIBLE]

XXXXVI) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

I find the idea that a woman could have been made to drink poison because her husband was jealous absolutely repulsive. 

[biblestudymanuals.net]

[Go back and reread the passage verse by verse and tell me it was poison and why you concluded her drinking of it resulted in an abortion. Use a proper interpretation of the words of that passage and make your case better this time. Whatever the result, you may find what God has commanded repulsive, but I would suggest you pray to Him about your feelings and ask for enlightenment so that you may either refute what I found so I may stand corrected, or stand corrected before Him yourself, or maybe God will apologize for being so wrong about this abortion / infidelity thing.

Here's what I previously posted on this:

[Let's see what the passage actually says]:

[Numbers 5:11-31 (NASB)]:

(Nu 5:11 NASB) "Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 

(Nu 5:12 NASB) "Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, 'If any man's wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him, 

(Nu 5:13 NASB) and a man has intercourse with her and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband and she is undetected, although she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act, 

(Nu 5:14 NASB) if a spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife when she has
defiled herself, or if a spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife when she has not defiled herself, 

(Nu 5:15 NASB) the man shall then bring his wife to the priest, and shall bring as an offering for her one-tenth of an ephah of barley meal; he shall not pour oil on it nor put frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of memorial, a reminder of iniquity.

(Nu 5:16 NASB) 'Then the priest shall bring her near and have her stand before the LORD, 

(Nu 5:17 NASB) and the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel; and he shall take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 

(Nu 5:18 NASB) 'The priest shall then have the woman stand before the LORD and let the hair of the woman's head go loose, and place the grain offering of memorial in her hands, which is the grain offering of jealousy, and in the hand of the priest is to be the water of bitterness that brings a curse. 

(Nu 5:19 NASB) 'The priest shall have her take an oath and shall say to the woman, "If no man has lain with you and if you have not gone astray into uncleanness, being under the authority of your husband, be immune to this water of bitterness that brings a curse; 

(Nu 5:20 NASB) if you, however, have gone astray, being under the authority of your husband, and if you have defiled yourself and a man other than your husband has had intercourse with you" 

(Nu 5:21 NASB) (then the priest shall have the woman swear with the oath of the curse, and the priest shall say to the woman), "the LORD make you a curse and an oath among your people by the LORD'S making your thigh waste away and your abdomen swell;

(Nu 5:22 NASB) and this water that brings a curse shall go into your stomach, and make your abdomen swell and your thigh waste away." And the woman shall say, "Amen. Amen." 

(Nu 5:23 NASB) 'The priest shall then write these curses on a scroll, and he shall wash them off into the water of bitterness. 

(Nu 5:24 NASB)  'Then he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings a curse, so that the water which brings a curse will go into her and cause bitterness. 

(Nu 5:25 NASB) 'The priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy from the woman's hand, and he shall wave the grain offering before the LORD and bring it to the altar; 

(Nu 5:26 NASB) and the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering as its memorial offering and offer it up in smoke on the altar, and afterward he shall make the woman drink the water.

(Nu 5:27 NASB) 'When he has made her drink the water, then it shall come about, if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, that the water which brings a curse will go into her and cause bitterness, and her abdomen will swell and her thigh will waste away, and the woman will become a curse among her people. 

(Nu 5:28 NASB) 'But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, she will then be free and conceive children. 

(Nu 5:29 NASB) 'This is the law of jealousy: when a wife, being under the authority of her husband, goes astray and defiles herself, 

(Nu 5:30 NASB) or when a spirit of jealousy comes over a man and he is jealous of his wife, he shall then make the woman stand before the LORD, and the priest shall apply all this law to her.

(Nu 5:31 NASB) 'Moreover, the man will be free from guilt, but that woman shall bear her guilt.'"

[Bible Knowledge Commentary On Nu 5:11-31]:

"The Accusation of Adultery (5:11-31)

5:11-15. In the covenant community of Israel adultery, like ceremonial uncleanness and trespass against one's brother or sister (v. 6), was symptomatic of unfaithfulness to the Lord. It therefore could not be tolerated as either a breach of the relationship of husband and wife (Ex. 20:14) or as the expression of covenant infidelity (Ezek. 16). If a man suspected his wife of adultery he was to take her before the priest whether he had proof or not (Num. 5:11-15). Since adultery also was a sin against God the appropriate offering of barley flour was to be taken to the priest and offered before the Lord. The purpose of the offering was to draw attention to guilt (v. 15). (How this was done is explained in vv. 18, 25-26.)

5:16-18. To start the ritual for ascertaining guilt the priest presented the woman before the Lord (i.e., before the tabernacle), took water specially blessed or set apart for such cases, and mixed it with dust from the tabernacle floor. He then loosened the woman's hair and placed the barley offering in her hands... while he held the water jar in his hands. Though the scene so far suggests the magical procedures of pagan trials by ordeal, magic itself is expressly forbidden in the Old Testament (e.g., Deut. 18:9-13). So this ordeal ritual must be understood in terms of the symbolical value of its elements. The barley represents the offering appropriate to judgment, especially since it was not to be mixed with oil or incense (Num. 5:15; cf. Lev. 2:1-2; 5:11-13). The water mixed with dust was holy (Num. 5:17) because it was in a holy vessel (perhaps the bronze basin, Ex. 30:18). The dissolving of the dust in the water may well relate to the eating of dust by the serpent, who had been cursed by the Lord in the Garden of Eden (Gen. 3:14). If the accused woman proved to be guilty she, like the serpent, could expect the curse of God as well. The loosening of her hair, while not a token of her immorality (since that had not been proved), nevertheless reflects the seriousness of the accusation and the presumptive guilt attested by the husband's "feelings of jealousy" (Num. 5:14).

XXXXVII) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

Nor do I think we should try to impose rules for a 5000 year old theocracy on modern people.

[biblestudymanuals.net]:

[What makes you think that people today are acting so godly and so differently from the peoples of ancient times that you can change what God has written because you have determined without evidence that God's Word is flawed and not relevant for today. Have you determined that it is no longer applicable - without a thorough and careful investigation and proper reading in accordance with the normative rules of language, context and logic that you were taught in grammar school? Actually it is evident from a careful reading that the 66 books of the Bible are applicable in many significant ways for peoples of all ages stressing His ways and not your ways from the beginning and for people of all ages. Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden for not doing what God commanded them to do. Their rebellion infected the whole human race except for one single human being. I'll leave you to discover who that human is. I pray that you will endeavor to read God's Word properly and stop trying to be God. By the way, were the New Testament letters which were written in the first century for the benefit of that 5000 year old theocracy or the peoples that lived before Abraham?  or for those living from the 1st century on? Is the church a part of that 5000 year old theocracy??? Yet at the same time, does not the New Testament endorse the basics of the faith that the Old Testament did, albeit restated in the commands of the epistles? How come so many quotations and corroborations from Old in the New Testament? Wow. Do you know anything about context????]

XXXXVIII) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

The only reason to study this scripture is to understand the context of the ancient Jewish people whose religion inspired and laid the foundation for ours. Further than that, I am of the opinion that Christians should be in communication with Rabbinical Judaism, because there are centuries of writings kept by that community that could enrich our understanding of ancient scripture.

[biblestudymanuals.net]

[God's Word declares the reasons to study Scripture. So you disagree with God??

[Compare 2 Tim 3:16-17]:

(2 Tim 3:16 NASB) "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 

(2 Tim 3:16 NASB) so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."

And these words presume you who read and obey them first is a man of God, one who has trusted alone in Jesus Christ's propitiation for the sins of the whole world in order to become a child of God / man of God, born of God into the family of God

[Compare John 1:12-13 NASB]:

(Jn 1:12 NASB) "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

(Jn 1:13 NASB) who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."

Furthermore, your words, "to understand the context of the ancient Jewish people whose religion inspired and laid the foundation for ours. Further than that, I am of the opinion that Christians should be in communication with Rabbinical Judaism, because there are centuries of writings kept by that community that could enrich our understanding of ancient scripture." are not given as reasons for reading Scripture in order to inspire, emulate, and to lay the foundation for others that followed such as those of the church. The context of the ancient Jewish people tells a story in Old and New Testaments of complete and utter failure of Israel to study Scripture, believe and obey it - through out the entire Bible. This includes the record of "Rabbinical Judaism, because there are centuries of writings kept by that community that could [would not] enrich our understanding of ancient scripture," but would rather largly contradict it. A shameful account of a chosen people who no longer are God's Chosen people until a future generation of Israelites whom God will see to it all believe of their own volition in their Savior Jesus Christ and are then transformed into perfect, long lived, mortal beings, who will then know the Word of God perfectly and become Priests who will corule with Jesus Christ over the nations of the world forever .

XXXXIX) [www.dailykos.com continues]:

That being said: I do not believe that scripture is holy. I don't believe that it is perfect. I do not believe that it is free from errors. I believe, in the words of the founder of my particular sect of Christianity, John Wesley, that scripture is "Sufficient." The bible is sufficient.]

[biblestudymanuals.net]

What you believe is not necessarily true. Evidence is required for that. Name one error, prove your case and stop twisting and editing it, and redefining the meaning of words. Just observe and report like an honest reader should. Then tell me what you think the Bible is sufficient for if it is incomprehensible, esoteric, strictly metaphorical without understandable value, contradictory, erroneous, not worthy of God?????? 

Here is something for you to ponder:

The word Holy means set apart to God. You don't believe the Bible is God's Word set apart to His Holiness and Purpose?????? Why then bother with the Bible if it is not worthy of God. Write your own Bible and stop pretending you respect it, interpret it properly.

Be-lieve’
v. t. [imp. & p. p. Believed; p. pr. & vb. n. Believing.] [OE. bileven (with pref. be- for AS. ge-), fr. AS. gelēfan, gelȳfan; akin to D. gelooven, OHG. gilouban, G. glauben, OS. gilōbian, Goth. galaubjan, and Goth. liubs dear. See Lief, a., Leave, n.] To exercise belief in; to credit upon the authority or testimony of another; to be persuaded of the truth of, upon evidence furnished by reasons, arguments, and deductions of the mind, or by circumstances other than personal knowledge; to regard or accept as true; to place confidence in; to think; to consider; as, to believe a person, a statement, or a doctrine
Webster's 1913 Unabridged English Dictionary.

Ho’ly

a. [Compar. Holier; superl. Holiest.] [OE. holi, hali, AS. hālig, fr. hæl health, salvation, happiness, fr. hāl whole, well; akin to OS. hēlag, D. & G. heilig, OHG. heilac, Dan. hellig, Sw. helig, Icel. heilagr. See Whole, and cf. Halibut, Halidom, Hallow, Hollyhock.]
1. Set apart to the service or worship of God; hallowed; sacred; reserved from profane or common use; holy vessels; a holy priesthood. "Holy rites and solemn feasts." Milton.
2. Spiritually whole or sound; of unimpaired innocence and virtue; free from sinful affections; pure in heart; godly; pious; irreproachable; guiltless; acceptable to God.
Webster's 1913 Unabridged English Dictionary.

Per’fect
a. [OE. parfit, OF. parfit, parfet, parfait, F. parfait, L. perfectus, p. p. of perficere to carry to the end, to perform, finish, perfect; per (see Per-) + facere to make, do. See Fact.]
1. Brought to consummation or completeness; completed; not defective nor redundant; having all the properties or qualities requisite to its nature and kind; without flaw, fault, or blemish; without error; mature; whole; pure; sound; right; correct.
Webster's 1913 Unabridged English Dictionary,

There are many passages that imply that the value of God's Word the 66 Books of the Bible are completely beneficial, without a failure to that end.

Now look up these verses if you have a Bible and check the translation to make sure it reflects the original text. If you don't have these resources go get them and be silent until you have the right tools to do the job. Then read each passage and determine what is stipulated and what is implied. For example, if God's Word is truth, this implies that it is true throughout and cannot therefore have any untruth, hence any imperfection in that regard. And if God - the God of the Bible is declared Holy and Righteous in the sense of absolutely Holy and absolutely Righteous then Absolute Perfection is implied. That is the God of the Bible. And that is the character of His Word PROPERLY AND CORRECTLY INTERPRETED. You have to do your homework. You cannot be a lazy, arrogant student. He will work with you if you will be a good, diligent student. Just like a good human teacher only perfect and far more demanding but to your own righteous and blessed eternity should you become a believer by trusting alone in Christ alone for eternal life. Then begins your journey into a blessed eternity, with eternal rewards awaiting you should you walk faithfully as well.

Ps 19:7; 2 Tim 3:15-17; Ps 119 all

If the Bible has errors in it, then it is not the Word of God, for God cannot lie (Titus 1:2; 2 Sam 7:28; Ps 119:105; John 17:17; Rom 3:4; 2 Tim 3:16; 2 Pet 1:20-21; Rev 22:6).

Jesus said, “Your word is truth” (John 17:17). To be true is to be without error in the sense of not telling anything false. Perfection is implied.

2 Peter 1:20-21 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Ps 119 throughout declares the value of God's Word to the extent it qualifies as perfect: