DISCUSSION BOARD ANSWERS
1) [James chapter two] =
Teaches that works must accompany faith in order to justify the already saved believer in another way: unto mankind - saving/preserving his physical life and producing an enriched eternity in heaven. v. 24 summarizes the entire chapter: The word translated "alone" is a neuter adverb which therefore cannot modify the Greek word for "faith" which is a feminine noun. The negative adverb "not alone" modifies the verb "is justified" and means "not alone" i.e. not just one kind of justification.
Verse 2:24 says, 'A man isn't to have just one kind of justification which is by faith, (this kind resulting in eternal life); rather, he is also to have another kind of justification which is by works, (this second kind resulting in a longer mortal life and rewards in heaven as a result of his works testifying to mankind that God has provided eternal life for him as a free gift).'
2) Heb 10:26-29 - judgment and fiery fervor does not always refer to hell, often to temporal judgment, there are examples in the bible of this, words for hell are not mentioned. Conclusion: temporal judgment for unfaithful believers.
3) Mt 24:13 -
"We that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" In view: those who go through the tribulation, endure to the end and are thus remain physically alive.
The end of the tribulation period is what "end" means. Saved does not mean eternal life but physical life for those who live during the Tribulation period. Saved usually means something else in the bible besides eternal life. If you had to endure the terrible things of the tribulation period in order to be saved, most Christians who will not go through such things because they died already would all go to hell by that reasoning. It hardly seems fair that some will make it to heaven and not be tested anywhere near what the tribulation period has for the saints there, (not necessarily Christian saints), thus this cannot be saved unto eternal life simply because you did not persevere threats on your life, billions around you being slaughtered in war, earthquakes, pestilence, starvation, murder, mayhem, one devastating natural disaster after another. Since Christians in the 1960s in America suffered nothing like this. So will all Christians in the 1960s who were not so tested go to hell because they never proved themselves worthy through such testing as the tribulation???
4) Roman chapter 11 -
The context is not individuals but groups of people being god's chosen people to provide his message of salvation to the world:
(v. 1) "I ask then: Did God reject his people?
(v. 2) God did not reject his people The context continues on through verse 5 (v. 5) "So too, at the present time there is a remnant [of people] chosen by grace.
(v. 7) What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened
The context of groups of people continues on through verse 11:
(v. 11) Again I ask: Did they [unfaithful Israel] stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. [Notice the group of people, the Gentiles is in view here, not individuals]
(v. 12) But if their [unfaithful Israels] transgression means riches for the world, and their [unfaithful Israels] loss means riches for the Gentiles [Notice: a group of people], how much greater riches will their fullness bring!
(v. 13) I am talking to you Gentiles [ a group of people]. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry [Notice that the focus is on the ministry of Paul to and through a group of people, the Gentiles. Paul goes on to indicate that this ministry to and through a group of people, Gentiles is the ministry of salvation to the whole world, as it was formerly and to be reinstituted through the people Israel, (v. 1, 15, 29-32]
(v. 14) in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people [unfaithful Israel] to envy and save some of them [some of the Israelites are saved but not through Israels ministry, now through Pauls ministry to the Gentiles].
(v. 15) For if their [unfaithful Israels] rejection [as the ministry of the gospel to the world which leads to the Gentiles now being that ministry instead, v. 13)] is the reconciliation of the world, what will their [unfaithful Israels] acceptance [again as the ministry for the gospel to the world] be but life from the dead? [i.e., the ministry of the gospel of eternal life]
(v. 17) If some of the branches have been broken off, and you [Gentiles - again the context is whole groups of people, not individuals], though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root,
["If some of the branches have been broken off" = "some" refers to a partial rejection of unfaithful Israel for there is a remnant of Israel still faithful and still under God's blessing, (v. 5).
"Some" does not refer to individuals but to the specific group of unfaithful Israel that has turned away from God]
(v. 18) do not boast over those branches . If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.
(v. 19) You will say then, 'Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.
[Gentiles - again the context is whole groups of people, not individuals], '
(v. 20) Granted. But they [unfaithful Israel] were broken off because of unbelief, and you [Gentiles]stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid.
[Notice that the whole group of Gentiles is in view, not individuals. And they stand by faith as a whole group of people as Israel attempted to do in the past and failed and were cut off as Gods chosen people temporarily to deliver the message of salvation to the world. So whole groups of people are in view and their corporate faithfulness, not individuals. And the result of corporate unfaithfulness is being cut off:]
(v. 21) For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you [branch of Gentiles] either.
[So "will not spare" does not have individual salvation in view but not being spared from being cut off as a whole group of people from Gods chosen people to proclaim the message of salvation to the world]
(v. 22) "Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell [unfaithful Israel], but kindness to you [Gentiles], provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off [as a whole group of people from Gods chosen people to proclaim the message of salvation to the world]"
5) 1 Tim 4:16
Since there are no references here to the gospel, or of believing, and since other passages which are absolutely clear on the matter of faith alone in Christ alone unto salvation unto eternal life - not by works which includes persevering, then this is another kind of salvation in view here: of the value of your life relative to physical longevity, i.e. living out your appointed years and eternal rewards.
6) [Heb 3:3-6, 14]:
(v. 3) Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself.
(v. 4) For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything.
(v. 5) "And Moses certainly was faithful in the administration of all God's house, but it was only as a ministering servant. In his entire ministry he was but a testimony to the things which were to be spoken - the revelations to be given afterward in Christ.
(v. 6) "But Christ, the Messiah, was faithful over His own Father's house as a Son and Master of it. And it is we who are not members of this house, if we hold fast and firm to the end our joyful and exultant confidence and sense of triumph in our hope in Christ."
By a natural semantic shift to which the Greek word for house naturally lends itself, the writer moved from the thought in vv. 3-5 of the house as the sphere where priestly activities transpired, i.e., the Temple, to the thought in v. 6 of the 'house' as consisting of the people who engaged in these activities, i.e., to all believers who each have their own priesthood. His readers, he affirmed, comprise His (the Son's) 'house' contingent, however, on one important consideration: if they hold on to their courage and the hope of which they boast, which is a sure hope in eternal life. In other words if some of the writers' Christian "brothers" should fall prey to an unbelieving heart which turns away from God, they would forfeit their roles, not their salvation in the Son's priestly house, which is only maintained by holding firmly to their Christian profession.
(v. 14) "We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first."
"share in Christ", (NIV); "partakers of Christ" (KJV) = "metochoi" = Str. # 3353, partner, associate, fellow, partaker depending upon context.
Here is is better rendered "partner" rather than partaker. This cannot mean partakers of Christ in the sense of being placed into the body of Christ because that happens not by being stedfast to the end but by a moment faith alone in the gospel and then one is immediately made a partaker of Christ by being placed into Him by the Holy Spirit - Eph 1:13-14 - no future time is in view as a result of being stedfast to the end.
Instead an immediate partaking is clearly portrayed and clearly guaranteed.
Thus another kind of "metochoi" of Christ, a co-rulership of Christ in His Millennial rule is in view as per the context of vv. 4-6.
BOOK OF LIFE THE BOOK OF LIFE DOES NOT LIST ONLY THE SAVED UNTIL THE END OF TIME WHEN WE HAVE THE FINAL VERSION: THE LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE
If only those who are saved are written in the Book of Life and since believers do not lead perfect lives and when they sin must according to skeptics repent and get back into a saved condition all the time then how can one who is saved, sins and loses ones salvation and repents and gets saved again get constantly blotted out and written in and blotted out and written in, over and over and over? The erasures and repeated writings would ruin the pages and make a mockery out of God's Book of Life. Since all men are born in sin and unsaved, and if only the saved are in the book of life and if your name is erased from it which was placed in it from the foundation of the earth, yet all men are born unsaved???
How can anyone's name be in the book of life if all are born unsaved and have to be saved?? How about another viewpoint: all men at first are written in the book of life - all are at first unsaved. Each who becomes saved remains, each who remains unsaved remains in the book of life until they die - if they die in their sins their name is then blotted out. Thus the final version of the book of life at the end of time is the Lamb's Book of Life which contains only the saved - but not until the end of time. That's the only way that makes sense. The Book of Life only makes sense if all men are written in it and are blotted out when they die unsaved.